art. 680

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stjohnbarleycorn

Senior Member
Just want to clear up in my mind on receptacles for permanent pools, above ground or below over 42" deep.

1. must have one general use rec. gfci protected more than 10' and less than 20'.

2. for cord connected pump, must be gfci protected and twist lock, both one and two have in use covers.

3. Do you have to run an insulated grounding conductor for these receptacles, or is Uf wire considered ok.

also do the pool pumps, say running load of 13 amps, if under 100' do you have any trouble running #12 for that, with the starting current of the pump?

thanks.
 

Dennis Alwon

Moderator
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Location
Chapel Hill, NC
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Retired Electrical Contractor
stjohnbarleycorn said:
Just want to clear up in my mind on receptacles for permanent pools, above ground or below over 42" deep.

1. must have one general use rec. gfci protected more than 10' and less than 20'.

2. for cord connected pump, must be gfci protected and twist lock, both one and two have in use covers.

3. Do you have to run an insulated grounding conductor for these receptacles, or is Uf wire considered ok.

also do the pool pumps, say running load of 13 amps, if under 100' do you have any trouble running #12 for that, with the starting current of the pump?

thanks.

I believe you mean art. 680 and are you talking 2005 or 2008 code?

100 feet at 13 amps I would use #10.
 

stjohnbarleycorn

Senior Member
yes I meant to say 680 and it is with the 2005 code, they are not putting 2008 in for about a year looks like, thanks for your response.
 

Dennis Alwon

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Location
Chapel Hill, NC
Occupation
Retired Electrical Contractor
stjohnbarleycorn said:
Just want to clear up in my mind on receptacles for permanent pools, above ground or below over 42" deep.

1. must have one general use rec. gfci protected more than 10' and less than 20'.
Art. 680.34 tells me no less than 10 feet. 2008 it will be 6 feet.
I do not see the 20 foot limit. All recept. within 20 feet of the pool must be GFCI but it does not say it must be within 20 feet. art. 680.32

2. for cord connected pump, must be gfci protected and twist lock, both one and two have in use covers.
art. 680.32 says yes-- GFCI protected but I don't see where it must be twist lock.

3. Do you have to run an insulated grounding conductor for these receptacles, or is Uf wire considered ok.
I don't believe you need an insulated ground

also do the pool pumps, say running load of 13 amps, if under 100' do you have any trouble running #12 for that, with the starting current of the pump?
I answered this already
 

chris kennedy

Senior Member
Location
Miami Fla.
Occupation
60 yr old tool twisting electrician
Dennis Alwon said:
I don't believe you need an insulated ground
Not being a pool guy, could you clear this up for me Dennis?

680.21 Motors.
(1) General.
Any wiring method employed shall contain an insulated copper equipment grounding conductor sized in accordance with 250.122 but not smaller than 12 AWG.
 

stickboy1375

Senior Member
Location
Litchfield, CT
stjohnbarleycorn said:
1. must have one general use rec. gfci protected more than 10' and less than 20'.
Correct

stjohnbarleycorn said:
2. for cord connected pump, must be gfci protected and twist lock, both one and two have in use covers.

Correct

stjohnbarleycorn said:
3. Do you have to run an insulated grounding conductor for these receptacles, or is Uf wire considered ok.


Check out 680.21 (A)(1), (A)(4). Interior wiring can be UF, SE, or NM, as long as it contains a #12 or larger uninsulated grounding conductor. Exterior wiring MUST contain an insulated grounding conductor.

stjohnbarleycorn said:
also do the pool pumps, say running load of 13 amps, if under 100' do you have any trouble running #12 for that, with the starting current of the pump?

I would run # 10 as well
 

Dennis Alwon

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Staff member
Location
Chapel Hill, NC
Occupation
Retired Electrical Contractor
chris kennedy said:
Not being a pool guy, could you clear this up for me Dennis?

680.21 Motors.
(1) General.
Any wiring method employed shall contain an insulated copper equipment grounding conductor sized in accordance with 250.122 but not smaller than 12 AWG.

That is in section II. Storageable pools are in section I and III
 

RUWired

Senior Member
Location
Pa.
2008,article 680.21(A)(1) requires an insulated ground. Once you strip the sheath off, it is no longer insulated
icon10.gif
.Article 680.22(A)(1) requires the pump receptacle if mounted at 6' to be single,locking,grounding,gfi, or hard wired.Article 680.22(A)(3) requires a general use receptacle 6'-20' and to be gfi. I don't think they thought that one out far enough this year because, if the pump motor has to be single and locking if its mounted at 6', why does'nt the general use receptacle have to be if mounted at 6'.
Rick
Edited to add, if the pump receptacle is mounted at 10' it only requires gfi protection.
 
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iwire

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Staff member
Location
Massachusetts
stjohnbarleycorn said:
also do the pool pumps, say running load of 13 amps, if under 100' do you have any trouble running #12 for that, with the starting current of the pump?

In my opinion there will be no noticeable difference between using 12 or 10 AWG for this pool pump.

Either way the pump will start fine, there is little inertia to overcome with a centrifugal water pump.

The use of a larger conductor would result in a slight energy savings.
 

Dennis Alwon

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Chapel Hill, NC
Occupation
Retired Electrical Contractor
RUWired said:
2008,article 680.21(A)(1) requires an insulated ground. Once you strip the sheath off, it is no longer insulated
icon10.gif
.Article 680.22(A)(1) requires the pump receptacle if mounted at 6' to be single,locking,grounding,gfi, or hard wired.Article 680.22(A)(3) requires a general use receptacle 6'-20' and to be gfi. I don't think they thought that one out far enough this year because, if the pump motor has to be single and locking if its mounted at 6', why does'nt the general use receptacle have to be if mounted at 6'.
Rick
Edited to add, if the pump receptacle is mounted at 10' it only requires gfi protection.

art 680 section III is for storageable pools. It refers to section I and III
 

chris kennedy

Senior Member
Location
Miami Fla.
Occupation
60 yr old tool twisting electrician
Dennis Alwon said:
That is in section II. Storageable pools are in section I and III
stjohnbarleycorn said:
Just want to clear up in my mind on receptacles for permanent pools, above ground or below over 42" deep.
I think I'm in the right place.
 

RUWired

Senior Member
Location
Pa.
Dennis Alwon said:
art 680 section III is for storageable pools. It refers to section I and III

The op asked about permanet pool hook up.

II. Permanently Installed Pools
680.20 General.
Electrical installations at permanently installed pools shall comply with the provisions of Part I and Part II of this article.
680.21 Motors.
(A) Wiring Methods. The wiring to a pool motor shall comply with (A)(1) unless modified for specific circumstances by (A)(2), (A)(3), (A)(4), or (A)(5).
(1) General. The branch circuits for pool-associated motors shall be installed in rigid metal conduit, intermediate metal conduit, rigid polyvinyl chloride conduit, reinforced thermosetting resin conduit, or Type MC cable listed for the location. Other wiring methods and materials shall be permitted in specific locations or applications as covered in this section. Any wiring method employed shall contain an insulated copper equipment grounding conductor sized in accordance with 250.122 but not smaller than 12 AWG.
 

Dennis Alwon

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Chapel Hill, NC
Occupation
Retired Electrical Contractor
RUWired said:
The op asked about permanet pool hook up.

I am not certain that is what he meant however I did miss the permanent part. I saw above ground less than 42" makes me think storageable.
 

RUWired

Senior Member
Location
Pa.
Why would 680.22(A)(3) allow the general use receptacle to be only gfi and 680.22(A)(1)pump receptacle to be single and locking if mounted at 6'.
 

mpd

Senior Member
you cannot use UF wire to a permanently installed pool for the pump motor, a twistlock is only required if the receptacle is between 5ft & less than 10ft from the inside wall of the pool (2005), you can use any chapter 3 wiring method that contains of equipment ground in the interior of of single family dwelling
 
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