Lights burning out quickly

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Benton

Senior Member
Location
Louisiana
I have a call today the customer is saying that their lights are burning really fast even after replacing them. Anyone have any clue what this might be?
 

wirenut1980

Senior Member
Location
Plainfield, IN
I have a call today the customer is saying that their lights are burning really fast even after replacing them. Anyone have any clue what this might be?

Are the bulbs incandescant, compact flourescents, or other?

Could be a number of things:

- Bad light fixture if it is the same bulbs
- bulbs are rated at 110 or 120 V, and the supply voltage is higher, which could just be high utility voltage, or possibly a neutral problem.

You probably need to measure the voltage.
 

CONDUIT

Senior Member
As others have stated it could be several things. If incandescent I use 130 volt rated lamps they last longer. If it is in a location that it is possibly subject to a lot of vibration this could cause the element to break. You can purchase lamps from Grainger for those types of areas.
 

480sparky

Senior Member
Location
Iowegia
The first thing to check is the wattage limitations of the fixture itself. Installing a 200 watt bulb in a fixture rated for 60 watts not only will cause the 200 watt bulb to burn out too quickly, but it also becomes a fire hazard. This is due to the excessive heat that will build up in the fixture and surrounding area.

If you’ve made sure you’ve got the correct wattage of quality bulbs installed and you still are replacing them too often, it may be due to excessive vibration. Some bulbs are subject to shaking simply due to their location. Fixtures near a door are a prime example. Another source of vibration may be the occupants of the building, such as a childs bedroom, or equipment such as an exercise room. The constant movement of these items shakes the walls, floors & cielings, and that vibration is transferred to the bulb's filament. Cheaper lamps have fewer supports for the filament, and any vibration isn't reduced as much when there's fewer filament supports. Using a better quality bulb avoids this problem. If the fixture can be outfitted with 'rough-service' bulbs, that would be one option to try. Rough service bulbs may also be called garage-door operator bulbs, appliance bulbs, or ceiling fan bulbs. They are designed with additional support for the filament than a standard bulb. Another option to look at is Compact Fluorescent (CF) bulbs, which have no filament. And with todays' advancing technology, you may want to look into Light-Emitting-Diode (LED) lights as well.

If none of the above suggestions seem to help, there’s one more thing to try.

And it comes as a surprise to many that there actually are right and wrong ways to proverbially, ‘screw in a light bulb'. You may be twisting them into the socket too tightly.

By ‘cranking down’ on a bulb during installation you may be causing the most damage to the socket. Premature bulb failure is often caused by bulbs that have been installed too tightly into light fixtures.

Look into the base of a light fixture socket and you will see a brass tab. This tab is bent at an angle when the fixtures are new and will spring back and forth if depressed slightly. Now take several new light bulbs and inspect the base of each one. You will quickly notice that the bottom of most light bulbs has a small dot of solder in the center of the base. More importantly the size of this drop of solder is not exactly consistent. It is close in size, but not always the same size or height.

If the brass tab at the base of the socket does not make firm contact with the bottom of the light bulb, the connection may heat up, and this heat cause the filament to burn out too soon.

To prevent this you must be sure the brass tab is always at about a 30 degree angle inside the bottom of the socket. People who twist bulbs in tightly will depress and flatten the tab so it does not spring back when a bulb is replaced.

If you discover the tab is flattened, then you must turn off the power to the lights at the switch. As an additional safety measure, turn off the circuit breaker to the lights. Use a needle-nose pliers and carefully grasp the sides of the brass tab and slowly pull it up so the end of the tab is about one quarter inch off the base of the socket.

When you install a bulb always do so with the power off and the light switch on. Screw the bulb in enough for the thread to hold the bulb in place. Turn on the power, and continue turning the bulb. As soon as the bulb comes on, turn the bulb one-eighth of a turn. If you screw the bulb in too tightly, you will once again flatten the brass tab.
 

kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
The first thing to check is the wattage limitations of the fixture itself. Installing a 200 watt bulb in a fixture rated for 60 watts not only will cause the 200 watt bulb to burn out too quickly, but it also becomes a fire hazard. This is due to the excessive heat that will build up in the fixture and surrounding area.

If you?ve made sure you?ve got the correct wattage of quality bulbs installed and you still are replacing them too often, it may be due to excessive vibration. Some bulbs are subject to shaking simply due to their location. Fixtures near a door are a prime example. Another source of vibration may be the occupants of the building, such as a childs bedroom, or equipment such as an exercise room. The constant movement of these items shakes the walls, floors & cielings, and that vibration is transferred to the bulb's filament. Cheaper lamps have fewer supports for the filament, and any vibration isn't reduced as much when there's fewer filament supports. Using a better quality bulb avoids this problem. If the fixture can be outfitted with 'rough-service' bulbs, that would be one option to try. Rough service bulbs may also be called garage-door operator bulbs, appliance bulbs, or ceiling fan bulbs. They are designed with additional support for the filament than a standard bulb. Another option to look at is Compact Fluorescent (CF) bulbs, which have no filament. And with todays' advancing technology, you may want to look into Light-Emitting-Diode (LED) lights as well.

If none of the above suggestions seem to help, there?s one more thing to try.

And it comes as a surprise to many that there actually are right and wrong ways to proverbially, ?screw in a light bulb'. You may be twisting them into the socket too tightly.

By ?cranking down? on a bulb during installation you may be causing the most damage to the socket. Premature bulb failure is often caused by bulbs that have been installed too tightly into light fixtures.

Look into the base of a light fixture socket and you will see a brass tab. This tab is bent at an angle when the fixtures are new and will spring back and forth if depressed slightly. Now take several new light bulbs and inspect the base of each one. You will quickly notice that the bottom of most light bulbs has a small dot of solder in the center of the base. More importantly the size of this drop of solder is not exactly consistent. It is close in size, but not always the same size or height.

If the brass tab at the base of the socket does not make firm contact with the bottom of the light bulb, the connection may heat up, and this heat cause the filament to burn out too soon.

To prevent this you must be sure the brass tab is always at about a 30 degree angle inside the bottom of the socket. People who twist bulbs in tightly will depress and flatten the tab so it does not spring back when a bulb is replaced.

If you discover the tab is flattened, then you must turn off the power to the lights at the switch. As an additional safety measure, turn off the circuit breaker to the lights. Use a needle-nose pliers and carefully grasp the sides of the brass tab and slowly pull it up so the end of the tab is about one quarter inch off the base of the socket.

When you install a bulb always do so with the power off and the light switch on. Screw the bulb in enough for the thread to hold the bulb in place. Turn on the power, and continue turning the bulb. As soon as the bulb comes on, turn the bulb one-eighth of a turn. If you screw the bulb in too tightly, you will once again flatten the brass tab.

Now if we can only teach people to install lamps according to this process or better yet call an electrician everytime a lamp needs replaced.

I seem to run into more socket shells pulled loose from the connecting rivet because of overtightening than I run into problems with the center pin. Especially the aluminum shells.
 

Jljohnson

Senior Member
Location
Colorado
Ummmm... same as what 480sparky said. I have found the tabs flattened quite often and it does cause the lamps life to be shortened. In addition to the other things that have been discussed, if your measured voltage is a little high (not uncommon in my area to measure 123-124 L-N) this is a great opportunity to upsell a dimmer switch to your clients. A quality dimmer switch will automatically lower your voltage at the sockets to around 90% of the original voltage, even with the dimmer set to full on. Lamp life at 90% voltage, in my experience, is at least 4X the life without the dimmer. I've had the same BR65 lamps in the RC fixtures in my kitchen for almost 3 years now. Before you ask, the kitchen lights get used alot.
 

kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
Ummmm... same as what 480sparky said. I have found the tabs flattened quite often and it does cause the lamps life to be shortened. In addition to the other things that have been discussed, if your measured voltage is a little high (not uncommon in my area to measure 123-124 L-N) this is a great opportunity to upsell a dimmer switch to your clients. A quality dimmer switch will automatically lower your voltage at the sockets to around 90% of the original voltage, even with the dimmer set to full on. Lamp life at 90% voltage, in my experience, is at least 4X the life without the dimmer. I've had the same BR65 lamps in the RC fixtures in my kitchen for almost 3 years now. Before you ask, the kitchen lights get used alot.

I don't see this as a good sell with the upcoming phasing out of incandescant lamps. Unless you don't care about repeat customers or referrals from previous customers.
 

Jljohnson

Senior Member
Location
Colorado
I don't see this as a good sell with the upcoming phasing out of incandescant lamps. Unless you don't care about repeat customers or referrals from previous customers.

If the "phasing out" of incandescent lamps is anything like the phase out of T-12 fluorescent, we will still be using incandescent lamps for another 30 years or so
 

charlie b

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Lockport, IL
Occupation
Retired Electrical Engineer
I have a call today the customer is saying that their lights are burning really fast even after replacing them.
You left out the single most important clue as to the possible cause, and I suspect your customer didn't give you this clue.

Whenever anything fails, the very first question that should be asked is this, "What changed recently?" I sincerely doubt that this customer has been living in the same house for 20+ years, and has always had this problem, and has been buying replacement light bulbs by the dozens for all that time. So I would want to know when this symptom began, and what happened just before it began. Did they just install a new light fixture, and is that the only fixture giving them this problem? Did they just have a receptacle outlet installed or repaired? Did they just switch from a gas range to an electric, or vice versa, and did that installation involve any wiring changes in the main panel? Did a travelling salesman recently knock on their door, and sell them a case of "value priced" light bulbs? Did their neighbor, the handyman, just install a set of landscape lights in the back yard? Did they just hang the holiday lights outside? Once you get past the question of what changed recently, then you can get a good idea of where to look for the cause of the problem.
 

K8MHZ

Senior Member
Location
Michigan. It's a beautiful peninsula, I've looked
Occupation
Electrician
I have a call today the customer is saying that their lights are burning really fast even after replacing them. Anyone have any clue what this might be?

Are they using Sylvanias? I have had terrible luck with them and have seen entire cases of them last only a few days before failing.

One SWAG would be to try a different brand and stay away from the very cheapest ones.

Vibration is a killer of incandescent bulbs. That can come from door slamming, heavy equipment traffic, or being near an airport. An easy way to check is to put one hard use (filament supported) bulb into play. If that bulb never fails and the rest do, the problem is vibration. It could be that the garage door is getting old and vibrating the house when used.

What happens with CFL's in the same environment? Are they failing quickly, too?
 

Strife

Senior Member
If there's a large number of lights I always found the cuplrit to be the customer perception.
I had many times customers complaining that they change too many lamps. I do a quick count of their lights and they have 60 light poles. 12hrs a day, 7K hr a year times 60=420K hrs.
So I tell the customer at 20K hrs you should replace about 20 a year.
And then they suddenly realize they're only changing 14-15.
Second, related also to perception, one has to realize that as the light fixtures get older, the lamps will last shorter. You open an exterior fixture a few times, water will start getting in, the elements start making their presence felt. Connections get a little hot, a little dust here, a little rust there. All adds up to reducing the life of the lamp.

Third, with similar large amount of lamps, I noticed the lamps were not actually replaced. Again, I had calls that they replaced a certain lamp few days before and now doesn't work. I go take a look and I CAN TELL the lamp was not replaced recently.
If it's none of the above, most other times it's vibration(especially in incandescent lamp, boy, they don't like vibration). Or bad sockets. Arcing sockets will kill lamps quickly(especially incandescent ones)


I have a call today the customer is saying that their lights are burning really fast even after replacing them. Anyone have any clue what this might be?
 

kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
If there's a large number of lights I always found the cuplrit to be the customer perception.
I had many times customers complaining that they change too many lamps. I do a quick count of their lights and they have 60 light poles. 12hrs a day, 7K hr a year times 60=420K hrs.
So I tell the customer at 20K hrs you should replace about 20 a year.
And then they suddenly realize they're only changing 14-15.
Second, related also to perception, one has to realize that as the light fixtures get older, the lamps will last shorter. You open an exterior fixture a few times, water will start getting in, the elements start making their presence felt. Connections get a little hot, a little dust here, a little rust there. All adds up to reducing the life of the lamp.

Third, with similar large amount of lamps, I noticed the lamps were not actually replaced. Again, I had calls that they replaced a certain lamp few days before and now doesn't work. I go take a look and I CAN TELL the lamp was not replaced recently.
If it's none of the above, most other times it's vibration(especially in incandescent lamp, boy, they don't like vibration). Or bad sockets. Arcing sockets will kill lamps quickly(especially incandescent ones)

I never know what to believe either, especially with fluorescent tubes. I don't know how many times I have been told "we replaced all the lamps and it still didn't work", or "it did not last very long". Then I look at it, the ends are black, I put in new lamps and it works. Did someone forget to tell them they need to discard the lamps after they change them? I also find many times if they give you some lamps to put in if needed they often are dark on ends. Gee I wonder why they never last long?:slaphead:
 

readydave8

re member
Location
Clarkesville, Georgia
Occupation
electrician
Me too, at one building I started writing ballast change dates inside fixture, I don't think I've changed any with less than 4 years service, before I started doing that my customer thought he was changing ballasts constantly. Maybe he was, but he has a lot of fixtures, ballasts fail at different ages.

And at carwash I keep a log of which get new lamps or ballasts, yes I work on the lights frequently, no not the same ones.

So these are flourescents and metal halides, but the same principle can apply in a dwelling.
 

Article 90.1

Senior Member
Interesting thread. I just had a service call where we replaced 40 watt 130 volt A-19 Phillips lamps and one of the fixtures would not work, tore it apart, check everything, repeat, repeat, etc... We had about 2 dozen lamps on the van that day and thought that we were putting in bad lamps. We decided to check every one of our lamps with a DMM and about 1/2 of the lamps had zero resistance/no continuity. I had to pick up other supplies, so I brought all the lamps top the supply house and had them replace them. I thought I was crazy, so I asked the counter guy to test the lamps with his DMM and he got the same results. I then asked him to try the lamp in a display fixture and the ALL worked! I was so embarrassed; how could it be that there is no resistance/continuity, but the lamp lights?

Back at the house we re-learned the results of shotgun troubleshooting and that the fixture in which we were replacing lamps was repaired after simply bending the center socket tab up a little bit. PS: for those who hate no contact voltage sensors, they are perfect for this task!

To prove I wasn't going crazy I called our local Philips lighting rep and explained the situation to him. His take was that the pallet of lamps was probably dropped in shipping, and he ended up taking the pallet out of inventory; his concern was that the DMM likely couldn't bridge whatever gap may have been created, but that 120 volts was able to and that the lamps would likely not last long.
 

goldstar

Senior Member
Location
New Jersey
Occupation
Electrical Contractor
First of all I'm finding that the vast majority of "A" bulbs are made poorly, especially the ones your customer is buying at the Dollar store at 5 for $1.00 and imported from some Third World country. Second, a lot of these homeowners that come back from the gym after pumping iron have this weird predisposition that the bulbs have to be screwed in so tightly that you need a socket wrench to remove them. No wonder the center tabs in the sockets get bent out of shape. And finally I've found that if you have a fixture with a protective globe that does not allow the heat around the bulb to dissipate, that bulb will not last as long as bulbs in open air. Just my 2 cents worth.;)
 

K8MHZ

Senior Member
Location
Michigan. It's a beautiful peninsula, I've looked
Occupation
Electrician
Interesting thread. I just had a service call where we replaced 40 watt 130 volt A-19 Phillips lamps and one of the fixtures would not work, tore it apart, check everything, repeat, repeat, etc... We had about 2 dozen lamps on the van that day and thought that we were putting in bad lamps. We decided to check every one of our lamps with a DMM and about 1/2 of the lamps had zero resistance/no continuity. I had to pick up other supplies, so I brought all the lamps top the supply house and had them replace them. I thought I was crazy, so I asked the counter guy to test the lamps with his DMM and he got the same results. I then asked him to try the lamp in a display fixture and the ALL worked! I was so embarrassed; how could it be that there is no resistance/continuity, but the lamp lights?

Back at the house we re-learned the results of shotgun troubleshooting and that the fixture in which we were replacing lamps was repaired after simply bending the center socket tab up a little bit. PS: for those who hate no contact voltage sensors, they are perfect for this task!

To prove I wasn't going crazy I called our local Philips lighting rep and explained the situation to him. His take was that the pallet of lamps was probably dropped in shipping, and he ended up taking the pallet out of inventory; his concern was that the DMM likely couldn't bridge whatever gap may have been created, but that 120 volts was able to and that the lamps would likely not last long.

"zero resistance / no continuity"??????

They are exact opposites. How many ohms did the DMM read? Zero resistance = 0 ohms, no continuity = infinite ohms.
 

Dennis Alwon

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Chapel Hill, NC
Occupation
Retired Electrical Contractor
In my experience, 99.9% of the time it is the voltage of the bulb. I only use 130V bulbs. I wish they would outlaw 120V bulbs.
 
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