Service Install Question

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I am not inspecting this job, I just have a question and I want to use the info for one of my presentations.


This picture is of a service supply to a building with a fire escape located next just about under the weatherhead.



My question is does this comply with 230.9 or not?
read all of 230.9 carefully
IMG_3194.jpg
 

C3PO

Senior Member
Location
Tennessee
Is this a trick question?:grin:

I would think that the two services on the brick wall would be a violation not the one on the siding. :-?
 

mdshunk

Senior Member
Location
Right here.
Maybe it doesn't comply with the letter of the text, but it certainly complies with the spirit of the text. That ladder is just sored there by weights. It's not like a person could possibly climb up there and accidentally contact the taps. The ladder would just pull down. If a guy wanted to be tough about it, it's my opinion that he could certainly violate that job. Not complying with the letter of the text and having an actual hazard are two different things. I see no particular hazard here.

EDIT... I just noticed the service on the brick building. Yeah, that's a hazard. Disregard everything I said. That's not good right there.
 

iaov

Senior Member
Location
Rhinelander WI
I think it is in compliance as there are no open conductors within 3 ft. of the escape. It might depend on where they start measuring the escape at. From the platform it is definately good. The top of the barrier might be open to discussion and does the barrior count as a wall?? I don't think it is an unsafe installation.
 

stickboy1375

Senior Member
Location
Litchfield, CT
iaov said:
I think it is in compliance as there are no open conductors within 3 ft. of the escape. It might depend on where they start measuring the escape at. From the platform it is definately good. The top of the barrier might be open to discussion and does the barrior count as a wall?? I don't think it is an unsafe installation.


You don't think the weather head on the brick building is within 3' of the ladder?
 

mpd

Senior Member
i would be more concerned about the one on the brick building, and which owner would you cite a violation if you had to
 

iaov

Senior Member
Location
Rhinelander WI
stickboy1375 said:
You don't think the weather head on the brick building is within 3' of the ladder?
I'm not sure that I understand how that ladder works,. Would you have to exit the window to the platform, crawl up and over the top to head to the ground? It appears to me that we can't see in the picture where yo actually get to the ground at. If that is how you do it , it is a definate violation then.
 

cadpoint

Senior Member
Location
Durham, NC
How many "?"

How many "?"

Isn't it more of a AHJ call, Local right to waivers, it seems that the fire escape was second but just a guess. Besides it looks like they moved the brick service once into a foul, who knows.

A little of post, I just noticed the use of the ceramic isolation on both the grounded conductors, and in two different styles. Is this a just a hang-over situation, what I've seen around here is a pressure connection with a wire hasp on the ground at drip loop, but not creating any isolation.

Is electrical isolation required on the ground, or they are just using up existing materials, installers option, or is it just old school, or just SOP in your neighborhood?
 

stickboy1375

Senior Member
Location
Litchfield, CT
iaov said:
I'm not sure that I understand how that ladder works,. Would you have to exit the window to the platform,


The ladder is probably about 7-8' off the ground at the raised position, once its lowered you probably have a slight step over then proceed to climb down.
 

iaov

Senior Member
Location
Rhinelander WI
stickboy1375 said:
The ladder is probably about 7-8' off the ground at the raised position, once its lowered you probably have a slight step over then proceed to climb down.
I'm afraid my ignorance in this matter gives away my small town rural roots. We have fire escapes here but they go all the way to the ground.:)
 

mdshunk

Senior Member
Location
Right here.
iaov said:
I'm afraid my ignorance in this matter gives away my small town rural roots. We have fire escapes here but they go all the way to the ground.:)
In the cities, the ladders or stairs are often counterweighted so that crooks don't have a convenient 2nd way to potentially break in. A little pressure from above puts the stairs or ladder down.
 

480sparky

Senior Member
Location
Iowegia
mdshunk said:
In the cities, the ladders or stairs are often counterweighted so that crooks don't have a convenient 2nd way to potentially break in. A little pressure from above puts the stairs or ladder down.


To me, that one looks like there's a hook on the third rung down. Maybe you just lift it slightly so the hook can be disenganged. I don't see any cable or wire that would attach to a counterweight.
 

mdshunk

Senior Member
Location
Right here.
480sparky said:
To me, that one looks like there's a hook on the third rung down. Maybe you just lift it slightly so the hook can be disenganged. I don't see any cable or wire that would attach to a counterweight.
Could be. I never examined the pic, but anything's possible. I've seen some pretty ingenious and ellaborate fire escape rig-ups. A lot of these are fabricated by local welders and fabricators. I'm somewhat surprised that there aren't some NFPA or UL rules on fire escape construction. Maybe there are? That's one area that might be interesting to learn more about.
 

480sparky

Senior Member
Location
Iowegia
mdshunk said:
..... I'm somewhat surprised that there aren't some NFPA or UL rules on fire escape construction. Maybe there are? That's one area that might be interesting to learn more about.


Nothing at NFPA's web site that I can find.
 

480sparky

Senior Member
Location
Iowegia
mdshunk said:
Probably would be covered by the IBC, now that I think more about it.

But it is strange that the NFPA would have nothing on the matter, considering what the F stands for. Unless they feel if you do the proper P, you won't need a fire escape in the first place?
 

mdshunk

Senior Member
Location
Right here.
480sparky said:
But it is strange that the NFPA would have nothing on the matter, considering what the F stands for. Unless they feel if you do the proper P, you won't need a fire escape in the first place?
I'm wondering if there's no such thing as a "fire escape", technically speaking? Maybe it's just the required 2nd exit, constructed out of fire rated materials same as any stairway or stairwell in a multi-tenant occupancy? If that's the case, the UL Orange Book and the IBC would preside. Seems like Don G ought to have the inside scoop on this?
 
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