Diesel dispensing

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Shockedby277v

Senior Member
Location
Michigan
I am working on a distribution center for a chain store. It has a simple diesel tank with a 120v pump above ground for the yard truck drivers to fill up with. I am planning on running this with class 1 div 1 fittings and boxes for the install and changing over to pvc below 2'. Do I need a E-stop?? Any other issues I am not seeing?


Thanks in advance
 

ronaldrc

Senior Member
Location
Tennessee
Gasoline and diesel are both class 1 / group D. We have always treated them the same around here.

If its is going to be a dispensing area where they are handling the liquid.I think it would be class 1 wiring.
 

renosteinke

Senior Member
Location
NE Arkansas
There's isn't much difference between diesel and fuel oil ... and I've yet to see Haz Loc wiring at an oil furnace. It does not pose anything like the risks associated with gasoline.

Diesel only? Don't worry.
 

kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
Gasoline and diesel are both class 1 / group D. We have always treated them the same around here.

If its is going to be a dispensing area where they are handling the liquid.I think it would be class 1 wiring.

Read 514.3(A) like Don said and then find out what the flash point of diesel is. I'm not certain what it is but pretty sure it is more than 100? F.
 

iwire

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Massachusetts
Gasoline and diesel are both class 1 / group D. We have always treated them the same around here.

I am sitting at my desk in my basement and not more than 10' from me sits a 250 gallon fuel oil storage tank, it is the same as diesel except it has a dye added to identify it as fuel oil so truckers can't use it to avoid road tax.

That said there is nothing classified about the wiring in my basement. :)
 

kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
I am sitting at my desk in my basement and not more than 10' from me sits a 250 gallon fuel oil storage tank, it is the same as diesel except it has a dye added to identify it as fuel oil so truckers can't use it to avoid road tax.

That said there is nothing classified about the wiring in my basement. :)

They do same thing for diesel used on farm here - truckers (and over the road farm vehicles) can use it but if on a public road and they get caught with dyed fuel in the tank, the fines are pretty steep.

As far as if the wiring in your basement is classified - if it were you would not be able to tell us anything about it or you would have to kill us:happyyes:
 

iwire

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Massachusetts
get caught with dyed fuel in the tank, the fines are pretty steep.

Yeah, same here.

Although it happens there is a fuel oil dealer across the street from me and I always see the local fire trucks over there getting filled up, I imagine they are exempt from the road use taxes.

As far as if the wiring in your basement is classified - if it were you would not be able to tell us anything about it or you would have to kill us:happyyes:


:D

A lot of open boxes, some K&T, and maybe an EGC from a new NM connected to a water line with Scotch 33. :eek:hmy:
 

ronaldrc

Senior Member
Location
Tennessee
Read 514.3(A) like Don said and then find out what the flash point of diesel is. I'm not certain what it is but pretty sure it is more than 100? F.

I did read what Don said.


My latest NEC is 2002

So 2011 could be different. But my A para, read if you were not handling it , it would not need a class 1 wiring.

I believe B para would apply here for a dispensing area. :)
 

ronaldrc

Senior Member
Location
Tennessee
I use to do maintenance for a dry cleaning chain.

Some of the older machines where varsol. But it is about the same as kerosene.

But all of them required class 1 wiring.
 

iwire

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Massachusetts
The flash point of diesel is 144F well above the 100F in 514.3(A)


2011
514.3 Classification of Locations.
(A) Unclassified Locations.
Where the authority having
jurisdiction can satisfactorily determine that flammable liquids
having a flash point below 38?C (100?F), such as gasoline,
will not be handled, such location shall not be required
to be classified.


2002
514.3 Classification of Locations.
(A) Unclassified Locations.
Where the authority having
jurisdiction can satisfactorily determine that flammable liquids
having a flash point below 38?C (100?F), such as gasoline,
will not be handled, such location shall not be required
to be classified.

I did notice a bar beside this section in the 2002 so it must have been different in 99 but I don't have that handy. :)
 

david luchini

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Connecticut
Occupation
Engineer
My latest NEC is 2002

So 2011 could be different. But my A para, read if you were not handling it , it would not need a class 1 wiring.

I believe B para would apply here for a dispensing area. :)

It doesn't appear to me that the section has changed between 2002 and 2001 NEC.

514.3(B)(1) says "Table 514.3(B)(1) shall be applied where Class I liquids are stored, handled, or dispensed..."

NFPA 30A lists diesel fuel as a Class II combustible liquid, not a Class I flammable liquid. I don't think paragraph B would apply.

Edit: Bob types faster than me. NEC 99 says basically the same thing, but the layout is different. "Where the authority having jurisdiction..." is located in 514-1. And 514-2 say "Table 514-2 shall be applied where Class I liquids are stored, handled, or dispensed..."

NFPA 30A lists the flash points of Diesel Fuel #1 as 100?F, Diesel Fuel #2 as 125?F, and Diesel Fuel #4 as 130?F,
 
Last edited:

hurk27

Senior Member
The flash point of diesel is 144F well above the 100F in 514.3(A)


2011



2002


I did notice a bar beside this section in the 2002 so it must have been different in 99 but I don't have that handy. :)

It was moved from 514-1

514-1. Definition
A gasoline dispensing and service station is a location where gasoline or other volatile flammable liquids or liquefied flammable gases are transferred to the fuel tanks (including auxiliary fuel tanks) of self-propelled vehicles or approved containers.
Other areas used as lubritoriums, service rooms, repair rooms, offices, salesrooms, compressor rooms, and similar locations shall comply with Articles 510 and 511 with respect to electric wiring and equipment.
Where the authority having jurisdiction can satisfactorily determine that flammable liquids having a flash point below 38?C (100?F), such as gasoline, will not be handled, such location shall not be required to be classified.
FPN No. 1: For further information regarding safeguards for gasoline dispensing and service stations, see Automotive and Marine Service Station Code, NFPA 30A-1996.
FPN No. 2: For information on classified areas pertaining to LP-Gas systems other than residential or commercial, see Standard for the Storage and Handling of Liquefied Petroleum Gases, NFPA 58-1995, and Standard for the Storage and Handling of Liquefied Petroleum Gases at Utility Gas Plants, NFPA 59-1995.
FPN No. 3: See Section 555-10 for gasoline dispensing stations in marinas and boatyards.
 

ronaldrc

Senior Member
Location
Tennessee
The flash point of diesel is 144F well above the 100F in 514.3(A)


2011



2002


I did notice a bar beside this section in the 2002 so it must have been different in 99 but I don't have that handy. :)

Bob and David

514 is the same in the 2002. maybe the class 1 wiring for diesel is just pushed in this area around here.

Thanks :)
 

kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
514 is the same in the 2002. maybe the class 1 wiring for diesel is just pushed in this area around here.

If there is a gasoline dispenser and the diesel dispenser is within the area classified because of the gasoline then the diesel dispenser must have class 1 methods used. At fuel dispensing sites where there is both it is common to do both with class 1 methods even if not necessary so there is no problems if things are changed sometime.
 

Shockedby277v

Senior Member
Location
Michigan
Perfect. I'm running it as unclassified. Even after years, this is one of my favorite tools on the job site. Since my AHJ is a jack of all trades master of none (build/plumb/elect insp) I just want to be compliant. Thanks again.
 
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