A change.. 680.26 Graphic

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radiopet

Senior Member
Location
Spotsylvania, VA
well considering ther term "apparatus" and some common sense.....I would argue the pole portion of the fence "apparatus" is more equipment related that lets say...some metal window trim anyday...but thats just me.

Heck....Its ok to disagree with me fella...I dont mind.;)
 

M. D.

Senior Member
Paul, you did not finish the sentance

...and the like used as a part of or in connection with, an electrical installation.
 

radiopet

Senior Member
Location
Spotsylvania, VA
Also it is only fair for me to also tell you where i get alot of additional info....the IRC E4104.3 Parts not required to be bonded.

As an educator I end up teaching the NEC...as an inspector I have to enforce the IRC and IBC...so both together aid in my interp....sorry.
 

frizbeedog

Senior Member
Location
Oregon
radiopet said:
Heck....Its ok to disagree with me fella...I dont mind.;)

I'm not. This article is challanging and very open to interpatation it seems. I'm just following along to find figure out what I'm going to do about my installs. This debate has made me think more about this as has recent threads about the changes in 680.

I really just want to get a handle on it.
 

radiopet

Senior Member
Location
Spotsylvania, VA
MD.....I was really trying to not bring in why i believe what i do because some dont like when i speak of the IRC or IBC in the NEC FORUM...
As for Mikes intent i can only say he stated it was "stupid" to show the bonding to the metal window and door trim but believes the fence and antenna bonding is clear.....
 

M. D.

Senior Member
radiopet said:
MD.....I was really trying to not bring in why i believe what i do because some dont like when i speak of the IRC or IBC in the NEC FORUM...
As for Mikes intent i can only say he stated it was "stupid" to show the bonding to the metal window and door trim but believes the fence and antenna bonding is clear.....

I don't see the language in the 2008 that gives Mike such clear vision on the fence or antenna ,..in fact it seems quite the opposite

You could send me a P.M. with whatever back up you have ,..if not that's O.K. too .
 

radiopet

Senior Member
Location
Spotsylvania, VA
lol.....well i posted the IRC section in a previous post....i wish I did have the 2006 IRC on my Motorola Q as i would certainly post it for ya fella...honestly i would.

I can indeed see where this verbiage leaves alot to be desired.....you know we do have time to get changes into the 2011...I have already sent in a few myself.
 

M. D.

Senior Member
Lol...I think if you are looking to get the fence and antenna bonded you would need to make a change ...lol
 

frizbeedog

Senior Member
Location
Oregon
radiopet said:
lol...not me.....I dont dont bond them.....Im too busy bonding metal trim and door moldings..tehehehehe

Not that funny. Here's why. The guy in the field needs to know what to do while you go back and forth over the language. The langage needs to be fixed or, present reasons why one is a hazard and not the other.

....so there's a problem with some language. Is not bonding the fence or the antenae a hazard. Why do you think this is such an important article to understand? And raises so much debate?

If I had to guess, based on the first picture, it's because the antenae and the fence posts are anchored in the earth. And the door frames are not. Less potential difference hazzard.
 

tom baker

First Chief Moderator
Staff member
Mikes graphics are very specific on whats shown and not shown. Probably changed the door to wood to eliminate confusion. Mike would be very pleased to know you noticed!
 

frizbeedog

Senior Member
Location
Oregon
tom baker said:
Mikes graphics are very specific on whats shown and not shown. Probably changed the door to wood to eliminate confusion. Mike would be very pleased to know you noticed!

They still showed a bonding jumper in the 2004 pic which appears to be wood as you say.
 

radiopet

Senior Member
Location
Spotsylvania, VA
I believe that 680.26(B)(1) could be argued that the fencing is part of the pool structure as it is in many cases erected primarily for the pool. Now the antenna as shown in this image is the weaker of the desired.....but then again it is bonded to the GES by art. 800 requirements so arguments can be made as to why bond it to the grid if near the pool......more so than practicle needs of the window trim......just my view...nothing more.
 

radiopet

Senior Member
Location
Spotsylvania, VA
if ya get a chance...read what the 2006 IRC has to say about it ( for additional info only )Now knowing Mike C and how dedicated he is to the graphics and mikes desire to make it simple...he just found it better to remove it.....
 

M. D.

Senior Member
tom baker said:
Mikes graphics are very specific on whats shown and not shown. Probably changed the door to wood to eliminate confusion. Mike would be very pleased to know you noticed!

Specific ,?,...not this one (08),..there is no explanation ,..there is no label, I am left to assume that they must be wood ,...but wait Paul said Mike thought it was stupid to show the window/door frame bonded and it would be indeed ,if they were in fact wood .... I think it is a little deeper than a desire to eliminate confusion ..which it does not do by the way.
 

radiopet

Senior Member
Location
Spotsylvania, VA
well.....I think it just ends up being a practicle thing. I cant speak for WHY he made the change technically.....only Mike knows but I formed my belief based on other standards that are of higher authority than the NEC. We have attempted here to figure why the graphic has changed ( which i honestly did not notice )....I would simply venture to say it was to tidy of the graphic....showing the bond to the window fram could confuse people to always think it needs bonding...Mike has the best images in the business so he felt the bond was not needed to depict...I have asked him but yet to hear back.
 

M. D.

Senior Member
Paul 2008 680.26(b)(1) is conductive pool shells

I think 680.26(b)(5)

Metal fittings
All metal fittings within or attached to the pool structure shall be bonded. Isolated parts not over 4" in any dimension and do not penetrate the pool structure more than 1" shall not require bonding

or (3)

Metallic Components
All metalic parts of the pool structure, including reinforcing metal not addressed in 680.26(B)(1) (A) , shall be bonded....

IMO both are a stretch
 

frizbeedog

Senior Member
Location
Oregon
radiopet said:
I would simply venture to say it was to tidy of the graphic....showing the bond to the window fram could confuse people to always think it needs bonding...Mike has the best images in the business so he felt the bond was not needed to depict...I have asked him but yet to hear back.

When you get his response, ask him if you can post it here. Since this is about him and his interpratation.....and his forum.

And the overall understanding of people who use his materials. The least he could do.

I've heard that Mike doesn't visit here.....mabey he does in secret. ;)

...posing as some newbie just to see what you'd say.
 
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