Need a Little Help With EMyth

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Sparky555

Senior Member
Like everything I read in a book for $50 or less, if I can get a gem or two I'm satisfied. EMyth certainly had a gem or two, but I'm not ready to ride the train. Forget for a moment that he bombed his own business, although he worked his way out of a $M bankruptcy with $M legal fees as written in Revisited. Not quite the model I want to follow. Forget all the boring conversations with the pie lady. I wish I could get a version with all that edited out.

The Model of Glory in EMyth is the McD model of training high school kids & retirees to be productive quickly using systems. That's the part I'm not ready to jump on the train about. Maybe you can get a kid to answer the phone & schedule appointments...or purchase materials & keep inventory...or do commercial or residential new construction. The difference that throws me is having a skilled residential or commercial service tech doing troubleshoot & repairs. Forget the high school kids & retirees. This takes years of training. They aren't going to be productive in a few days or weeks.

Will someone please explain it to me?

Dave
 

mdshunk

Senior Member
Location
Right here.
Sparky555 said:
Will someone please explain it to me?
The EMyth book is simple, and I'll put it in a nutshell. It does have a gem or two to get the gears turning, and everyone should read it. However, the whole book is one gigantic ad to get you to buy the E-Myth Mastery services and training for big-bucks.

I guess you got to the end of the book and thought a bit like me. I essentially said to myself, "Okay, I agree so far, but where's the rest of the book?" Yes, systems take years to develop, and one way to get one NOW, would be to buy a Mr.Sparky or Mr.Electric franchise, or join ESI or the Nexstar network.
 

bikeindy

Senior Member
Location
Indianapolis IN
First to answer your questions, we must realize that for every steriotype there is a reason for it being there. White men can't jump, don't have rythm... why do teachers teach? it isin't that they can't do things it is more that they are better at teaching. I think this is the case with the writer of Emyth.

To answer the question of McD's, the high school kids don't start as managers they start as burger flippers and if they have it in them they move up through the ranks to maybe one day be a store owner. That is the model, not everyone makes it. You can start a high school kid off as a helper electrician with no experience and train him up in the field to be a master electrician, with all the knowledge he needs to do all you want him to, even own and operate a company, but he needs to have it in him. They won't all make it, some will only make it to a certain level and stay there.

I think that is why the Union model for training Electricians is a good one. You can do that with your own EC business but with time and patience and train him up in your way by your standards. It does work I am doing it myself, the frustrations come when you need a guy with more knowledge than you have been able to impart on your guy(s), in this case you may need to look for the electrician with more experience and knowledge, finding the guy that fits your model who doesn't come with "baggage" is a little tougher.
 

charlie

Senior Member
Location
Indianapolis
bikeindy said:
I think that is why the Union model for training Electricians is a good one.
Don't let this get to a conversation about union vs. merit shops or this thread will get locked or removed.
icon13.gif


On to the thread topic. I would like to point out that most authors do their research and put everything to print and it is their thoughts and opinions. They make mistakes and go down the wrong roads just like everyone else. For the most part, a book is one man or woman's opinion and may not be any better than your own. Just because it is in print doesn't make it so. :smile:
 

bikeindy

Senior Member
Location
Indianapolis IN
charlie said:
Don't let this get to a conversation about union vs. merit shops or this thread will get locked or removed.
icon13.gif

Not my intention, I actually have very little experience with Union things, I know a bit about how the training takes place here in Indy and think it is a good model. My point was to the OP's diccussion of the book and training people.
 

peter d

Senior Member
Location
New England
mdshunk said:
There is a pretty good "systems" model to go by, even if you're not a union contractor: http://www.centralpaiec.org/

The IEC is the large non-union shop's "alternative" to the union model's training program. The last company I worked for was an IEC member and was able to use the IEC schools to train apprentices, where necessary.
 

bradleyelectric

Senior Member
Location
forest hill, md
I believe the premise of the book and the systems talked about is having policies and procedures in place for what each person is supposed to do in each circumstance. You need to have qualified workers who can implement the systems. The book is talking about how you run your business on a daily basis, not just how you train people to be a technician. It is about how to train people to work in your system. It deals with letting people know what is expected of them and how to implement it, not necessarily how to install an outlet, though that could be part of it. It is more about your policies and procedures in written format as to how to approach a job. Who is responsible for what gets bid, How you submit your bid, Who do you summit take offs for quotes to, how to follow up on the bid, how you file the job folders, what is the first thing you do when you are awarded a job, who and how do submittals get submitted, who do you send buy numbers to and what do you do with them, how does the materials get bought and by who, when? Who gets assigned to the site first and why, what they are responsible for upon first arriving there, how do you set the site up, how do you track job materials, expenses, paperwork, daily reports, job cost, what and when does the accountant get what, and why, how do you treat labor and problems associated with it, what happens when a question arises, a change is requested? Who does the billing? Who follows up on the billing and how, when? How do you handle the money? Who handles the money? How is transportation handled? How are problems with that handled? Who maintains the vehicles/ equipment and how, when? How is equipment handled? Transported? How are tools bought, assigned, maintained, tracked? There is more, but my son wants to go to the movies and he really helped a lot in the yard today, and I think this covers the basic idea. The true idea I believe is to set the business up and have systems in place so that the business can be run without you being there. That is the difference in being in business and having a job. As they say working on your business not in it. When the systems are in place and operating reasonably well your business is worth something other than the value of used trucks and .10 on the dollar for the materials and tools that have been accumulated over the years.
 

iaov

Senior Member
Location
Rhinelander WI
While not wanting to discount the skills needed to be a Great McDonalds employee I'm guessing they can be taught in a matter of weeks. To become a well schooled, highly competent electrician takes years.Many years. My Sister in Law gave me the E-myth book when I first started on my own. Right now I own a job, not a buisness according to the book. The problem is that I realy like the job. I like being an electrician more than I like being a buisness man.
 

macmikeman

Senior Member
The Romex Racer read and quoted E-myth alot. He used the priciples of the book, invented ways to apply them to his business. And like his methods or not, if he was telling the truth about things, setting up and using systems worked out well for him. In my opinion, it still takes a very creative mind to figure out what and where you can apply the E-myth stuff.
Harder for everyday plain old dullards like myself to invent new methods. By the way, the pie stuff was very boring. It is even worse torture if you get the audio book version and try to listen to it all the way thru.
 

emahler

Senior Member
iaov said:
Right now I own a job, not a buisness according to the book. The problem is that I realy like the job. I like being an electrician more than I like being a buisness man.

what happens if you fall off a ladder tomorrow and break your arm? then you will be unemployed and what will happen?

you don't necessarily need employees to have a business...you just need to make sure that you are prepared...
 

electricguy

Senior Member
The best of emahler

The best of emahler

I have seen a publication called "The best of Blau"

maybe if the Emyth Contractor or" how much should i charge" Had an Electrical Contractor instead of the bakers it would of been more interesting.

Both those books did say dont charge cheaper because your overhead may be low now... charge accordingly so when you grow your ready for the costs of extra staff .
 

Rawls007

Member
bradleyelectric said:
I believe the premise of the book and the systems talked about is having policies and procedures in place for what each person is supposed to do in each circumstance. You need to have qualified workers who can implement the systems. The book is talking about how you run your business on a daily basis, not just how you train people to be a technician. It is about how to train people to work in your system. It deals with letting people know what is expected of them and how to implement it, not necessarily how to install an outlet, though that could be part of it. It is more about your policies and procedures in written format as to how to approach a job. Who is responsible for what gets bid, How you submit your bid, Who do you summit take offs for quotes to, how to follow up on the bid, how you file the job folders, what is the first thing you do when you are awarded a job, who and how do submittals get submitted, who do you send buy numbers to and what do you do with them, how does the materials get bought and by who, when? Who gets assigned to the site first and why, what they are responsible for upon first arriving there, how do you set the site up, how do you track job materials, expenses, paperwork, daily reports, job cost, what and when does the accountant get what, and why, how do you treat labor and problems associated with it, what happens when a question arises, a change is requested? Who does the billing? Who follows up on the billing and how, when? How do you handle the money? Who handles the money? How is transportation handled? How are problems with that handled? Who maintains the vehicles/ equipment and how, when? How is equipment handled? Transported? How are tools bought, assigned, maintained, tracked? There is more, but my son wants to go to the movies and he really helped a lot in the yard today, and I think this covers the basic idea. The true idea I believe is to set the business up and have systems in place so that the business can be run without you being there. That is the difference in being in business and having a job. As they say working on your business not in it. When the systems are in place and operating reasonably well your business is worth something other than the value of used trucks and .10 on the dollar for the materials and tools that have been accumulated over the years.


These are very good points here. However, I think that for a young business with very little capital or a very heafty base of clients, the answer for 90% of these questions will be the owner himself. The owner will take the place of at least 3-5 other positions besides technician because that's all he can afford for the time being, until work becomes quite abundant. Otherwise, he'd be sitting around the house all day while shelling out an overwhelming payroll because he's paying others to do stuff he has time to do himself.

On the other hand, while the contractor is still new, he should be perfecting his own system so that hopefully one day when he is too busy to do all the leg and paper work himself , he can train others to do it for him.
 

bradleyelectric

Senior Member
Location
forest hill, md
Rawls007 said:
These are very good points here. However, I think that for a young business with very little capital or a very heafty base of clients, the answer for 90% of these questions will be the owner himself. The owner will take the place of at least 3-5 other positions besides technician because that's all he can afford for the time being, until work becomes quite abundant. Otherwise, he'd be sitting around the house all day while shelling out an overwhelming payroll because he's paying others to do stuff he has time to do himself.

On the other hand, while the contractor is still new, he should be perfecting his own system so that hopefully one day when he is too busy to do all the leg and paper work himself , he can train others to do it for him.

Understand when volume is low the owner will be doing a lot of these things himself, but it is the system that has to be identified. When volume picks up, the systems can already be in place so the responsibilities can be handed over to employees. They can be shown what their responsibility is and how you expect it to be done.
 

dbuckley

Senior Member
I think you've missed the core message of the book.

What systemizing the business means in reality is that the business can operate in your absence, and thus your entire business can be duplicated or sold without the people.

Much of that systemization stuff is about the business's administrative and "boring" stuff (eg stock, truck schedules), and you seem to get that. What you don't get is that you are not looking to take a kid and train him how to be an electrician in a week; you are looking to take an appropriately skilled electrician and have him work "your" way, rather than "their" way. So when you go to troubleshoot an installation, you don't need to work out how it works 'cos every EC does it his own way, "your" guys all do it "your" way. You can swap and change crew about without detriment to the job.

Thats what you are supposed to take away from the book. Everyone works by the system.
 

Sparky555

Senior Member
dbuckley said:
I think you've missed the core message of the book.

What systemizing the business means in reality is that the business can operate in your absence, and thus your entire business can be duplicated or sold without the people.

Much of that systemization stuff is about the business's administrative and "boring" stuff (eg stock, truck schedules), and you seem to get that. What you don't get is that you are not looking to take a kid and train him how to be an electrician in a week; you are looking to take an appropriately skilled electrician and have him work "your" way, rather than "their" way. So when you go to troubleshoot an installation, you don't need to work out how it works 'cos every EC does it his own way, "your" guys all do it "your" way. You can swap and change crew about without detriment to the job.

Thats what you are supposed to take away from the book. Everyone works by the system.

I think I missed the core message of the book. Thanks for pointing it out to me. I think you're right.

Dave
 
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