Attic Wiring Method

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Dennis Alwon

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Chapel Hill, NC
Occupation
Retired Electrical Contractor
Pierre C Belarge said:
Actually the issue is one of storage. When one gets into some of the attics, there is so much storage that the possibility of damaging the cables/conductors becomes significant.

Pierre I didn't say it was legal. I was saying I cannot see the safety issue with it.

It also appears to me that this section of the attic is not the same as the section where it is accessible from permanent stairs. It looks as though you must crawl thru a kneewall to get there. If I am correct then I would not see that area as needing the protection. I know what you are going to say but if I were inspecting I would see that section as a separate attic space. How can you really store things against that wall?

Sure people will do almost anything but that would not be my stance on this issue. You asked opinions -- I gave one.
 

M. D.

Senior Member
Pierre C Belarge said:
MD
The wiring method is different for accessible attics by stairs, and attics that may be accessible by a scuttle hole...the difference is significant. Read all of 334.23- 320.23.

Are you saying to access this equipment you do not have to pass through two doors /scuttle ?? seems unlikely,.looks framed as a seperate space as Dennis has said.
 

Sharpie

Senior Member
Location
PA
I agree with Pierre. 320.23 Says:
"Where the attic is not accessible by a permanent ladder or stairs, guard strips are required only within 6 ft of the scuttle hole or opening."
 
This house has one of those attics that are larger than most peoples homes, with at least 4 Airhandlers and tons of other "goodies" located there. The attic is accessible by stairs and one is able to traverse the most of the attic in an upright position.


I have pictures of the lightning protection from the attic, which I may post tonight. I have classes to attend for the next 3 days, with a test on the last day, so I will be busy. The lightning protection has some unique features which I have not seen before.
 
Dennis Alwon said:
It also appears to me that this section of the attic is not the same as the section where it is accessible from permanent stairs. It looks as though you must crawl thru a kneewall to get there. If I am correct then I would not see that area as needing the protection. I know what you are going to say but if I were inspecting I would see that section as a separate attic space. How can you really store things against that wall?

Sure people will do almost anything but that would not be my stance on this issue. You asked opinions -- I gave one.


Dennis
How about shelving? I see many more jobsites than the typical electrician due to the nature of my position. Some attic inspections are almost impossible due to the nature of storage in them. Stuff is put there and then forgotten...packrats comes to mind. :wink:

The NEC may not be written for what happens in every house/building, but 'crazy things do make the code go round'.
 

al hildenbrand

Senior Member
Location
Minnesota
Occupation
Electrical Contractor, Electrical Consultant, Electrical Engineer
2008 NEC
320.23(A)

. . . . Where this space is not accessible by permanent stairs or ladders, protection shall only be required within 1.8 m (6 ft) of the nearest edge of the scuttle hole or attic entrance.
This is a curious turn of phrase.

If the transition from habitable space to attic space includes a stair or ladder, then the entire volume of the attic, to seven feet high, has to be afforded protections of 320.23.

However, if I stand in the hallway, and walk through a full size doorway onto the floor of the attic (no ladder or stair in the transition) then the "protection" of 320.23 is limited to within 6 feet of the "attic entrance".

Pierre, you were clear in your statement that the attic is accessible by stairs.

Just to test your statement, :wink: , I would not consider the stairs inside the "habitable space", say, the stair leading from another level to the hallway that includes the attic door, to be part of the access to the attic space, if the hallway connects to other habitable space such as a bed, bath, home office, play room, etc.

If the hallway had no other openings than the access to the attic, then I could consider the stairs leading into the hallway to be part of the attic access.
 

iwire

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Massachusetts
splinetto said:
The answer is....Drill one hole per wire thru a framing member.....And do it the First time

Talk about a one track mind. :D

How would that protect the cable better?

They would still be exposed to the same damage they are now, and fanned out with one cable per hole they would actually be more exposed to damage.
 

Dennis Alwon

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Chapel Hill, NC
Occupation
Retired Electrical Contractor
realolman said:
If they had been drilled they'd be OK , wouldn't they? no safer, but OK.

I don't believe drilling would be accessible. 320.23(B) allows cable installed parallel to Framing members. No where do I see you can drill the studs and be compliant. I also don't see where drilling is non compliant. :confused:
 

Dennis Alwon

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Chapel Hill, NC
Occupation
Retired Electrical Contractor
splinetto said:
The answer is....Drill one hole per wire thru a framing member.....And do it the First time

Starting trouble again--:grin:. So is it the attention or the abuse that you enjoy? ;)
 

mpd

Senior Member
would you be required to put guard strips above & below the cables? maybe they should change that section to include the requirements of 394.23
 

splinetto

Senior Member
Location
Missouri
iwire said:
Talk about a one track mind. :D

How would that protect the cable better?

They would still be exposed to the same damage they are now, and fanned out with one cable per hole they would actually be more exposed to damage.
Maybe your right...However, if the work in the picture had been done my way there might have not been a picture to look at on this forum..
 

electricmanscott

Senior Member
Location
Boston, MA
splinetto said:
Maybe your right...However, if the work in the picture had been done my way there might have not been a picture to look at on this forum..

Sure there'd be a picture. We'd all be laughing at the guy who drilled a hole for each wire. :D
 

forman400b

Member
Location
Westchester County NY
Occupation
Master Electrician. NYC, Westchester, New Jersey
Having not doing much residential, could someone show an example of how one of those running board thigamajiggies protects the nm?

Thanks
 

ItsHot

Senior Member
running boards

running boards

forman400b said:
Having not doing much residential, could someone show an example of how one of those running board thigamajiggies protects the nm?

Thanks
I do not have a photo, but basically you nail down board across the ceiling rafters and then lay in romex/nm between boards. The boards then provide so called protection from attic traffic.
 

acrwc10

Master Code Professional
Location
CA
Occupation
Building inspector
splinetto said:
Maybe your right...However, if the work in the picture had been done my way there might have not been a picture to look at on this forum..

Yes there would be a picture, you would have posted it. :grin: Personally I think with 24'' or more of duct work laying in front of it the NM is safe. Although it would take less then a half of an hour to get some 2x4 cut it and nail it up there if you're inspector ,who just spent 8 hours on a plane from CA to NY , wanted it. :grin: :grin:
 
acrwc10 said:
Yes there would be a picture, you would have posted it. :grin: Personally I think with 24'' or more of duct work laying in front of it the NM is safe. Although it would take less then a half of an hour to get some 2x4 cut it and nail it up there if you're inspector ,who just spent 8 hours on a plane from CA to NY , wanted it. :grin: :grin:


Wait a minute. I spent 8 very rough hours in a plane going over some of the roughest turbulence since I have been flying. The plane was canting and dropping and bouncing. It may take me weeks to recover...I pity the poor fool who calls me for inspections until I recover.......;) :grin: :D
 

Chamuit

Grumpy Old Man
Location
Texas
Occupation
Electrician
Is the j-box just to the left of the three gang with out a blank a plastic box with a metal cover? How do you bond that to the ground wire?
 
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