bare feeders overhead

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electfish

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Can bare ungrounded conductors be run overhead if they are not within ten feet of a structure per article 225.4? The feeders will run to a detached garage on poles and switch to insulated conductors at the last pole where they drop to the building. Thanks for any ideas.
 

A/A Fuel GTX

Senior Member
Location
WI & AZ
Occupation
Electrician
I would say you can run the feeders overhead and uninsulated as long as you heed 225.4. Having said that, that would be my last resort in running power to a detached garage. Can you go underground?
 

steve66

Senior Member
Location
Illinois
Occupation
Engineer
I would say no. In general, you have to use a chapter 3 wiring method. And the closest thing I see is 398: Open wiring on insulators. But open wiring refers to insulated wire. I don't see anything that allows uninsulated wire.

Steve
 

lordofpi

Senior Member
Location
New Jersey
I must agree that this is not permissable. As ECs, we -- and everyone else working off-grid -- are bound by the rules and wiring methods prescribed by the NEC. Only a utility company employee, who is bound by a different set of rules, may use bare.
 

electfish

Member
The electrician wants to poles to reflect an historical appearance. I need to decide whether or not to allow this wiring method.
 
'05 NEC

225.4
...insulated or covered (within 10 feet of the building)

310..2 Conductors.
(A) Insulated. Conductors shall be insulated.
Exception: Where covered or bare conductors are specifically permitted elsewhere in this Code.
 

steve66

Senior Member
Location
Illinois
Occupation
Engineer
don_resqcapt19 said:
It is my opinion that Article 225 permits this. See 225.4 and 225.5.

What about 310.2? It basically says conductors shall be insulated except where specifically permitted elsewhere.
 

mivey

Senior Member
The conductors are outside, and are permitted to be bare as per 225.4.

310.2 does not apply because of 310.1 "these requirements do not apply...to conductors specifically provided for elsewhere..."
 

mivey

Senior Member
and 398 is for wire in or on buildings and would not apply to the poles. This article is for knob & tube, not what the OP is talking about.
 
mivey said:
The conductors are outside, and are permitted to be bare as per 225.4.

310.2 does not apply because of 310.1 "these requirements do not apply...to conductors specifically provided for elsewhere..."


I am curious, where in the wording of 225.4 does it permit the wiring method to be bare?


The exception permits the EGC and the Grounded conuductor to be bare.
 

iwire

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Massachusetts
Pierre C Belarge said:
I am curious, where in the wording of 225.4 does it permit the wiring method to be bare?

As I read it the conductors can be bare anywhere but within 10' of a building or structure other than support poles.
 

iwire

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Massachusetts
mivey said:
398 is for wire in or on buildings and would not apply to the poles. This article is for knob & tube, not what the OP is talking about.

398 is not about K&T, K&T is coverd in 394. :)
 

wbalsam1

Senior Member
Location
Upper Jay, NY
225.4 addresses the 10' area away from a building or structure. It's intended to provide additional safety to persons who might touch these conductors as they reach the building. The exception allows the messenger wire (usually a grounded conductor)to be bare so as to provide a space for connection to the grounding electrode system if desired or required.
It would be a pain to strip all the insulation off of the aerial conductors except the last ten feet, but it does appear to be compliant.
For more ambiguous reading turn to 110.5, & 110.7 where it references insulation. :confused: :)
 

iwire

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Massachusetts
Pierre C Belarge said:
I would agree with this statement, if it were not for the wording in 310.2 exception...which uses the word "specifically".

Pierre I am confused with that answer.

225.4 specifically allows bare open conductors to be run say from one building to the other providing the final 10' is covered or insulated.
 

mivey

Senior Member
iwire said:
398 is not about K&T, K&T is coverd in 394. :)
Well that just ruined my thought.:grin: I thought one was concealed and the other not concealed. The stuff I have seen, concealed or not, looked about the same.
 

steve66

Senior Member
Location
Illinois
Occupation
Engineer
iwire said:
Pierre I am confused with that answer.

225.4 specifically allows bare open conductors to be run say from one building to the other providing the final 10' is covered or insulated.

I don't see that in the 2008. 225.4 says the wires have to be insulated within 10' of a building. It doesn't say anything about what happens for wires more than 10' from the building.

If it were not for 310.2, I would agree that 225.4 seems to be allowing bare wires by being silent on the issue. But the way 310.2 is worded, I have to agree with Pierre.
 
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