Downsizing the PIGTAIL

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jflynn

Senior Member
titan1021 said:
I was taught that using a #14 pigtail on #12 branch circuits, as in pigtailing residential receptacles was fine by the code.

In 8yrs of doing electrical work, I've never had an inspector say one word about #14 pigtailed to #12 wires in a receptacle box.

Until, yesterday ! This is this guys pet peeve. He asked to show him where in the code book it is permitted.

I was stumped !:confused:


Is this a common practice? this is not only an NEC violation but a bad wiring method ,I can;t relate to even doing this,or why its ever done...I/ve never seen it done in commercial...
 

480sparky

Senior Member
Location
Iowegia
jflynn said:
Is this a common practice? this is not only an NEC violation but a bad wiring method ,I can;t relate to even doing this,or why its ever done...I/ve never seen it done in commercial...

It's done because some people apply the tap rules to the pigtails. They also justify using 15a wire on a 20a circuit because the wire is going to a 15a receptacle.
 

kornbln

Senior Member
480sparky said:
It's done because some people apply the tap rules to the pigtails. They also justify using 15a wire on a 20a circuit because the wire is going to a 15a receptacle.

It's going to a 15amp receptacle (duplex), can't you still draw 20 amps by using both plugs? What happens if someone plugs in 1 15amp device and 1 5amp device? You now have 20 amps going over the #14. It can handle it?
 

peter d

Senior Member
Location
New England
kornbln said:
It's going to a 15amp receptacle (duplex), each outlet could potentially carry 15 amps right? What happens if someone plugs in 1 15amp device and 1 5amp device? You now have 20 amps going over the #14. It can handle it?

Yes, #14 wire is good for 20 amps. However, the NEC does not allow it to be used that way for general purpose receptacle circuits.
 

cowboyjwc

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Simi Valley, CA
Maybe I'm not understanding or I'm reading too much into it.

Are you saying that if you use #12 wire and put it on a 15 amp breaker that you cannot use a #14 pigtail?

Or is everyone assuming that since they ran #12 that they are putting it on a 20 amp breaker? Which they may very well be and then I would agree.
 

roger

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Fl
Occupation
Retired Electrician
cowboyjwc said:
Or is everyone assuming that since they ran #12 that they are putting it on a 20 amp breaker?

John, I can't speak for the others but this is my assumption.

Roger
 

480sparky

Senior Member
Location
Iowegia
cowboyjwc said:
Maybe I'm not understanding or I'm reading too much into it.

Are you saying that if you use #12 wire and put it on a 15 amp breaker that you cannot use a #14 pigtail?

That is perfectly legal.

cowboyjwc said:
Or is everyone assuming that since they ran #12 that they are putting it on a 20 amp breaker? Which they may very well be and then I would agree.

I'm sure that's the case. Not to many people wire a house with 12 and put it an a 15a breaker.
 

TOOL_5150

Senior Member
Location
bay area, ca
cowboyjwc said:
Maybe I'm not understanding or I'm reading too much into it.

Are you saying that if you use #12 wire and put it on a 15 amp breaker that you cannot use a #14 pigtail?

Or is everyone assuming that since they ran #12 that they are putting it on a 20 amp breaker? Which they may very well be and then I would agree.


I would say most of the guys here are figuring 20A / #12 circuit.... as I stated in post #2:
TOOL_5150 said:
HA! I was told this was 'OK' from my last boss as well. It is WRONG. You can not use #14 on a #12 branch circuit - Unless the breaker is 15 amps. The code specifically denies the use of #14, on a 20A, #12 receptacle circuit.
~Matt

I see no problem using a #14 on a #12 circuit with a 15A breaker...

~Matt
 
The reason why this requirement is in the NEC is due to a UL study.
I was at a UL code meeting in Philadelphia, which was part of a larger conference.
One of the UL code gurus explained the reason this is in the NEC. I do not remember word for word what was explained, but the jist of it had to do with the 14 AWG tail on a 20 amp circuit would easily permit the improper backstabbing of the device. He actually went into some detail, of course I have forgotten most of what he said.


That study may be available online somewhere...hint, hint :wink:
 

480sparky

Senior Member
Location
Iowegia
Pierre C Belarge said:
The reason why this requirement is in the NEC is due to a UL study.
I was at a UL code meeting in Philadelphia, which was part of a larger conference.
One of the UL code gurus explained the reason this is in the NEC. I do not remember word for word what was explained, but the jist of it had to do with the 14 AWG tail on a 20 amp circuit would easily permit the improper backstabbing of the device. He actually went into some detail, of course I have forgotten most of what he said.


That study may be available online somewhere...hint, hint :wink:

Not sure what you're saying here, Pierre. Devices capable of being backstabbed with 12 have been around a long time. I think it was in 2000 that they could only be made to accept 14. But the 15a/14AWG requirement goes back to at least 1959.
 
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kornbln

Senior Member
TOOL_5150 said:
I would say most of the guys here are figuring 20A / #12 circuit.... as I stated in post #2:


I see no problem using a #14 on a #12 circuit with a 15A breaker...

~Matt

and some time down the road if someone decides to replace the 15amp breaker with a 20amp because its #12 wire... are they going to check every pigtail?
 

480sparky

Senior Member
Location
Iowegia
kornbln said:
and some time down the road if someone decides to replace the 15amp breaker with a 20amp because its #12 wire... are they going to check every pigtail?

I would file that under Not My Problem. It's impossible to make your installation idiot-proof for the future.
 

c2500

Senior Member
Location
South Carolina
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Think about it, if the reason was that the poor installer had weak fingers and couldn't bend #12 they should probably be looking for another profession don't you think? :wink:

Roger​
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Or perhaps they should upgrade to side-wire spec grade. Strip and slide in as opposed to stab, and gently tighten those screws.:grin: No fatigue on those weak fingers.

c2500
 
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