New 200A service w/ generator backup

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JacksonburgFarmer

Senior Member
:confused: I have a job to quote, and have a code question....

New 200 Amp single phase service, customer wants wired for generator backup. Generator will be a tractor PTO driven unit. New service equipment will be mounted on wall of outbuilding. The new service will feed 3 buildings, a shop, livestock building, and farmhouse.

I plan to mount the meterbase on wall of building. The meter will feed a 200 Amp service rated transfer switch. The transfer switch will feed a 200 amp fused disconnect.

My question is can i by code, land all of the above mentioned load wires into the 200 amp fused disconnect? There will be (2) 100 amp feeders and (1) 150 amp feeder leaving this disconnect. Is this legal???? Would there be a better set up?????:confused: :confused:
 

480sparky

Senior Member
Location
Iowegia
Someone else here mentioned a 200a panel with a transer mechanisam built right into it.

Maybe that person will respond.
 

LLSolutions

Senior Member
Location
Long Island, NY
I would install a panel with OCP to distribute to the 3 loads, i doubt you'll make the tap rule with your buildings spaced out, that or you would have to size all conductors for 200 amps. I want to see an ATS rated for service equipment it would be great in soo many applications.
 

Buck Parrish

Senior Member
Location
NC & IN
480sparky said:
Someone else here mentioned a 200a panel with a transer mechanisam built right into it.

Maybe that person will respond.



It was not me but I agree that is the way to go.
You can get a main breaker kit to isolate the main.
Put a 100 or 125 amp breaker on the top left or right side.
You will not be able to turn the main on if the generator feed breaker is on.
Then from the 100 or 125 drop your circuit to where ever you want the generator feed.
What you we're describing does not sound code compliant with all the wires in that one box. Also those manual 200 amp transfer switches are exspensive.

Hey that "Funny Saying's " thread you started was a blast.
 

LarryFine

Master Electrician Electric Contractor Richmond VA
Location
Henrico County, VA
Occupation
Electrical Contractor
JacksonburgFarmer said:
I plan to mount the meterbase on wall of building. The meter will feed a 200 Amp service rated transfer switch. The transfer switch will feed a 200 amp fused disconnect.
If the TS's service disco is a breaker, you don't need a redundant second disco, and it need not be fused.

LLSolutions said:
I would install a panel with OCP to distribute to the 3 loads . . .
I agree. A 200 ML, 6-8 space outdoor panel with two 100a and one 150a breaker would be ideal.
I want to see an ATS rated for service equipment it would be great in soo many applications.
That's easy. Generac and many others have been making them for years. An example is the Generac RTS-E-200A3.
 

hillbilly1

Senior Member
Location
North Georgia mountains
Occupation
Owner/electrical contractor
Yes, their are transfer switches rated as service equipment, ASCO makes them for the big three. Square D, and I think several other manufactures make a manual transfer switch loadcenter with a mechanical interlock, but I think the maximum generator breaker size is limited to the maximum branch circuit breaker size which is usually 100 amp. CH and Square D make 200 amp manuals that are basically a 200 amp double throw switch with no fuses. About 4 to 5 hundred bucks. An automatic from Generac is around $600, but you will have to build your own control system, as Generac uses the generator to control the switch on this model.
 

JacksonburgFarmer

Senior Member
Ok....

Ok....

So, I would have the 200A meter feeding a 200A outdoor breaker disco. That would feed the 200A Manual transfer switch, which would feed the 200A m.b. outdoor panel w/ various breakers to feed the seperate buildings. I originally had thought this plan, but was trying to eliminate having a breaker box outside. (Even though it is WP, I am not a big fan if possible.) I have built setups like this, and variations like this before, BUT, other than the lineman from Power co. that was hooking up, was not inspected. (NO inspections out my way on most farm stuff.) However, this time their will be, so, I want my ducks in a row......:D :D
 

480sparky

Senior Member
Location
Iowegia
JacksonburgFarmer said:
.... However, this time their will be, so, I want my ducks in a row......:D :D

Why not pick up the tele and "One ringy-dingy" the AHJ and POCO?

ernestine2.jpg
 

LarryFine

Master Electrician Electric Contractor Richmond VA
Location
Henrico County, VA
Occupation
Electrical Contractor
JacksonburgFarmer said:
So, I would have the 200A meter feeding a 200A outdoor breaker disco. That would feed the 200A Manual transfer switch, which would feed the 200A m.b. outdoor panel w/ various breakers to feed the seperate buildings.
I'm thinking the meter feeds a service-rated automatic TS, which feeds a 200 main-lug panel with feeder breakers.

Again, you only need one service main disconnect, and that's in the service-rated auto (or manual) transfer switch.
 

hillbilly1

Senior Member
Location
North Georgia mountains
Occupation
Owner/electrical contractor
Is there a chance that you could upgrade the 150 to a 200? What I have done in the past is use a 200 amp mobile home disconnect (200 amp MB with 200 amp feed thru lugs with 4-6 spaces), feed the main panel thru the subfeed lugs, install breakers to feed the other panels. I don't think you will find a 200 amp load center that will accept anything larger than a 100 or 125 amp sub breaker.
 

JacksonburgFarmer

Senior Member
Hillbilly1, 150A and 200A main breakers are availiable for SD QO panels. They are not cheap, and they are a pain to install (space issues) I am not fimiliar with the mobile home panels, I will check into that. Thanks for the info.....
 

hillbilly1

Senior Member
Location
North Georgia mountains
Occupation
Owner/electrical contractor
JacksonburgFarmer said:
Hillbilly1, 150A and 200A main breakers are availiable for SD QO panels. They are not cheap, and they are a pain to install (space issues) I am not fimiliar with the mobile home panels, I will check into that. Thanks for the info.....

Mains yes, but what about the subs? Is the panel rated for that large of a sub? The mobile home main is about $120 bucks, including the main, you just have to buy the subs at around $40-50 bucks.
 

wireguru

Senior Member
hillbilly1 said:
Mains yes, but what about the subs? Is the panel rated for that large of a sub? The mobile home main is about $120 bucks, including the main, you just have to buy the subs at around $40-50 bucks.

you can get QO branch breakers in 125, 150,175, 200a. 150a and larger requires 4 spaces.

homline branch breakers are available in the same sizes with 150a and larger requiring 4 spaces.

for pricing example, a QO2150 will run you about $200 and a HOM2150 will run you a little under $100

sounds like using the mobile home main thing is the way to go.....

i love digging through the SQD catalog...they have some wierd stuff in there. :smile: I just found the QO-K key operated QO breaker....never seen that before...
 

dlamp67

Member
200 Amp Service Entrance ATS/MTS

200 Amp Service Entrance ATS/MTS

LLSolutions said:
I would install a panel with OCP to distribute to the 3 loads, i doubt you'll make the tap rule with your buildings spaced out, that or you would have to size all conductors for 200 amps. I want to see an ATS rated for service equipment it would be great in soo many applications.

Cutler Hammer has several options for 200 amp, 120/240 volt single phase service entrance rated automatic transfer switches. They have a model that is specific for residential applications that utilizes a breaker and a contactor style switch, very in-expensive. Thompson Technology can provide a manual transfer switch by utilizing their standard ATS, taking out the controller and installing push buttons on the door to signify what source you what the switch to be in. I just quoted one from Thompson, 800 amp, 480 volt. Very in-expensive.

Don
 

jsharvey

Member
Location
Mayetta Ks
New 200A service w/ generator backup

My question here is, does the customer want to back up the entire house from the genset or just certain loads? It will make a difference as to the size of the tansfer switch you use. If they are only concerned with a few lighting and receptacle loads you wouldn't need the full 200A transfer. Also Generac has a new "load shedding" transfer panel thats has seperate spaces for "critical" loads and other loads. I haven't seen it or wired one yet, will be doing so in the next week or so, but it sounds like the way it works is the "critical loads" would always have power if the genset was running and the other loads would as well unless the other load demand was greater than the generators output and it would then shut down the other loads, "critical loads" remaining powered. It may be something that would fit right in with what you're doing but from what the boss tells me, they aren't cheap.

J.S.Harvey
 
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