Licensed contractors, may I have your opinion please

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brantmacga

Señor Member
Location
Georgia
Occupation
Former Child
Scenario:

Even though the state has required licensing for years, a small county did not start "enforcing" the law until jan. '02.

That law was never really enforced and permits have been sold to unlicensed persons in all construction fields since the inception of the inspections dept.

A new inspector was hired a year ago, and is now strictly enforcing the law and giving out cease and desist orders. Unlicensed contractors who have been in business for 20+ years are having to close the doors and look for jobs, sending their employees to do the same thing. However, some unlicensed individuals have been allowed to continue working because of who they are, their connections, etc. . . The current inspector and previous were in a heated argument over this recently.

Not everyone within the county gov't agrees with what the inspector is doing, even though he's simply enforcing the laws set by these county officials and protecting the county from liability.


Do you think its fair? Would you be comfortable suggesting that the county make exception for unlicensed individuals with an already established business be allowed to continue working as long as they have proper insurance, and suggest they have to purchase bonds (as many counties I work in already require)?

Consider that although you're probably losing some work from these guys, its work you may not get anyway because once they see your price, a licensed contractor, they're going to get their neighbor's nephew's buddy to come do it for $20 and glass of sweet tea.

What say you?
 

quogueelectric

Senior Member
Location
new york
I say give them 2 yrs to comply grandfathered for 2 yrs until they can pass the test. If you cant pass the test you shouldnt be a contractor period.
 

brantmacga

Señor Member
Location
Georgia
Occupation
Former Child
quogueelectric said:
I say give them 2 yrs to comply grandfathered for 2 yrs until they can pass the test. If you cant pass the test you shouldnt be a contractor period.


that's a good suggestion and something i'll pass on.

the only negative I can think of is they might have trouble meeting the apprenticeship qualification. the people some of these guys worked under were around before licenses were required; and you have to apprentice under a licensed contractor. you now have to have signatures of 3 licensed electrical professionals on your application, which would probably be very hard for them to obtain. i'm not sure what the other trades are doing but i'm sure its similiar.
 

brantmacga

Señor Member
Location
Georgia
Occupation
Former Child
quogueelectric said:
How did other states do it fairly??

I don't know; i've always been against unlicensed work when it was required to have the license. for some reason i find myself sympathetic for these folks, some of whom i'm friends with and have passed along good jobs to me. i feel bad they've been in business all this time with no problems, and now a business that supported not only their family, but the families of their employees is being forced to close. i know the law is the law and that may end up being the final say. just seems wrong considering the county has done nothing for years until now.
 

growler

Senior Member
Location
Atlanta,GA
brantmacga said:
the only negative I can think of is they might have trouble meeting the apprenticeship qualification. the people some of these guys worked under were around before licenses were required; and you have to apprentice under a licensed contractor. you now have to have signatures of 3 licensed electrical professionals on your application, which would probably be very hard for them to obtain. i'm not sure what the other trades are doing but i'm sure its similiar.

If they are now to comply with state requirements then the state board could choose to allow some other proof of competence other than apprenticeship under a licensed contractor. An Example would be having a local business license for a trade for more than 5 years. They didn't really require much when they grandfathered in the old group back in the early 80's.

I'm sure that if they can prove they have been in business for 20 years they would let them take the test. Contact the state board.
 

brantmacga

Señor Member
Location
Georgia
Occupation
Former Child
growler said:
If they are now to comply with state requirements then the state board could choose to allow some other proof of competence other than apprenticeship under a licensed contractor. An Example would be having a local business license for a trade for more than 5 years. They didn't really require much when they grandfathered in the old group back in the early 80's.

I'm sure that if they can prove they have been in business for 20 years they would let them take the test. Contact the state board.

that's probably what they need to do. they need to come up with a solution quick because its about to get ugly.
 

nakulak

Senior Member
I would go straight to the media and make the govt officials look like the jerks that they are. There is nothing worse in a government than to have favoritism and laws which are enforced haphazardly and inequitably.
 

Minuteman

Senior Member
I would say, that the unlicensed contractors need a "licence provider" on staff to be accountable to the state. Many legitimate companies have to have someone come in to be the guy with a licence.
 

ItsHot

Senior Member
Just because an area does not have a building inspections department, does not make it right for a company to operate without a "state" license. If your area does not have a highway patrol office, can you still operate a motor vehicle without a drivers license. Yes! but is it legal?:-?
 

benaround

Senior Member
Location
Arizona
Even the IRS gives you one more chance to make it right!! How hard would

it be for this small county to let it be known that by this date xx/xx/xxxx the

law will be enforced , so get your ducks lined up. Jan 02 , wow, is this the

town of Procrastination ?

Still, in my book, you don't hurt people like that.
 

infinity

Moderator
Staff member
Location
New Jersey
Occupation
Journeyman Electrician
quogueelectric said:
How did other states do it fairly??

Way back when New Jersey started licensing they simply gave a license to any who could prove that they had been working as an electrician for a certain time period. This allowed guys who were in business for many years to continue without any sort of penalty. After a certain date everyone else had to take and pass a test. Wasn't a bad system since it allowed current contractors to keep their businesses open and provided for licensing for all future contractors.


Regarding the OP there should be some compromise worked out to keep guys who have been established in business up and running.
 

Brady Electric

Senior Member
Location
Asheville, N. C.
Licensed contractors, may I have your opinion please

This is pretty sticky
I like what brantmacga, benaround, and itshot had to say
what minuteman said is how I started in business years ago
Sometime its hard for my to sympathize because I had to jump threw the hoops
Although when I first started in Greensboro, N. C. the county inspections department had laxer laws than the city
I think since the town government started this, someone in charge should step up to the plate and make the right decisions.
Maybe since you brought this up for discussion something will be done
Good luck to all those involved
Semper Fi Buddy
 
benaround said:
Still, in my book, you don't hurt people like that.

That's what happened 20+ years ago in the rest of the US, and most of us are getting along just fine! Grandfather exemptions would allow person's who have been contracting prior to the enforcement of local laws the chance to obtain a license without fulfilling all the requirements of licensing. (e.g. they just have to pass the test and prove they are code competent, not work under someone for X years.)

On a somewhat related note, my father, God bless him, decided to fix the leaky shower in his house. It's been leaking at the valve since he moved in 5 years ago.

Instead of hiring someone with a license to come in and tell him it would be $300-$500 to fix it, since you can't get the parts, he figured out a way to remove the valve himself. Then, when he couldn't find gaskets, he made some. When he reinstalled the valve, he cracked the plastic seat washer behind the valve.

Then, he hired the cheapest plumber in the phone book to come take a look at it...to cut and cap the line running to the bath room, the plumber showed up without ANY tools, or ANY plumbing supplies. Then 2 hours of T&M (about 1 1/2 hours at Safety Orange, trying to find parts to cap the line) he told my dad that he hasn't done many of these, so he would be willing to try to install a new shower assembly T&M, and advised my dad to call a couple of other plumbers (names withheld) because he was sure my dad would love their prices.

I asked my dad why he didn't hire a licensed, bonded, insured plumber from the start, and his response was "I don't like unions". I tried explaining the difference between licensing (proving you're competent at your chosen field) and unions...but he couldn't grasp it.

I think you may have more issues at hand than just how to get a license. There is definitely going to be a period of adjustment and education needed to help people see why licensing is important.

Good luck, and God speed.
 

220/221

Senior Member
Location
AZ
Unlicensed contractors who have been in business for 20+ years are having to close the doors and look for jobs,

They could simply get licensed.



Things change and we adapt. That's why we are at the top of the food chain.
 

EBFD6

Senior Member
Location
MA
brantmacga said:
Even though the state has required licensing for years, a small county did not start "enforcing" the law until jan. '02.

Your first line says it all.

The law is what it is, and just because the previous inspector was not doing his job enforcing the regulations properly, does not excuse "electricians" blatant disrespect for the law.

I would not feel bad for these guys going out of business, as they have been operating illegally for 6 years. These rules do not go into place overnight with out debate and/or controversy, so I'm sure these guys were most likely well aware of what they were doing and continued anyway.
 

ceb58

Senior Member
Location
Raeford, NC
EBFD6 said:
Your first line says it all.

The law is what it is, and just because the previous inspector was not doing his job enforcing the regulations properly, does not excuse "electricians" blatant disrespect for the law.

I would not feel bad for these guys going out of business, as they have been operating illegally for 6 years. These rules do not go into place overnight with out debate and/or controversy, so I'm sure these guys were most likely well aware of what they were doing and continued anyway.

I agree with you, the op stated the STATE has requried the licence. It would be different if there were no state laws on the subject and it was left up to the individual counties whether licence were requried. Also it is hard to believe that the contractors only worked in one county for their 20 year run. How did they get by working in other counties that did enforce the rules?
 

bikeindy

Senior Member
Location
Indianapolis IN
How about that a guy runs his business for 20 years with no interference from the Government but now his wonderful government will burden him out of business. got to love your government down there making life "safe" for people.
 

c2500

Senior Member
Location
South Carolina
I would think the state would step into the mess. Since they issue the licenses, and at least in SC, the state is over local government.

I also would think the county would be very afraid of lawsuits for knowing and willfully breaking state law.

When they revised two of the specialty classifications in SC, residential electrical and plumbing, existing card holders were grandfathered in. New ones had to be tested.

c2500
 

j120v

Member
I work in LaCrosse county Wisconsin. The state is giving unlicensed contractors 5 yrs. to get there business in order. I do believe this is a statewide enforcement. The clock started ticking this year....I think.
 
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