mounting a 620lbs transformer 10' up???

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Smart $

Esteemed Member
Location
Ohio
charlietuna said:
a duct lift will fit through an electrical room door or anywhere a 112 kva transformer goes..
A duct lift (Genie lift, pictured below) requires support from directly beneath the object to be lifted. It will not lift objects over the top of something the supports cannot roll under... such as?possibly?the installed-on-the-floor transformer mentioned in the OP.

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Smart $

Esteemed Member
Location
Ohio
iwire said:
...
On a side note try to avoid using a pulley on the ceiling with the cable heading back down to a floor mounted winch. If you do so the loading on the ceiling is two times the weight of the item your lifting.
...
I've seen pulling sheaves go flying because the riggers are unaware of the double-force concept :rolleyes:
 

iwire

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Massachusetts
dbuckley said:
Pick up the yellow pages, and look under riggers...

Generally we call riggers in for over 5000 Lbs or problems like stairs, finished occupied spaces etc. Usually if we are dealing with heavy weights there is room to use a forklift or material handler etc.
 

infinity

Moderator
Staff member
Location
New Jersey
Occupation
Journeyman Electrician
Since he said in the OP that a duct lift won't fit in the electrical room he needs another option. The pulley system or chain-fall would be the only real choices. I prefer the latter for reasons of safety. For a transformer this small a rigger shouldn't be necessary unless the installer has absolutely no idea what he's doing.


tyha said:
we have to hang a 112.5 KVA transformer about 10' above another transformer in the air and we dont have enough room for any kind of lift to fit inside of the electrical room. any ideas. it is part of a change order and i am pricing it right now. I will post some pictures of the area tomarrow and see if the the greatest group of electrical professionals this side of jupiter can give me some ideas.
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charlietuna

Senior Member
i have never come across an electric room (built to code) with proper working clearance thaat i couldn't get a duct lift into. i'm talking about the manual lift with two big wheels to tilt it back on for transporting it and four small roller wheels for lifting--not a motorized lift. and if the door was too narrow and against code, you could tilt the lift sideways on it's side to get it in. it also has low enough feet and rollers to roll under an existing transformer once the 112 kva transformer clears the top of the existing transformer. then you got a straight shot up! thinking back-- we did some crazy rigging to accomplish problems in the field--SAFETY is always the first thing to consider. i bought two used duct hoists from a retired mechanical contractor, and they are "USED" but over the years they have helped set a lot of equipment.
 

tyha

Senior Member
Location
central nc
Ill have pics on monday to show you the limited amount of space we have. The duct lift won't work because it is going directly above another 75 K transformer.
 

charlietuna

Senior Member
get 112kva in room-move duct lift into room and under 112kva-raise 112kva to clear top of existing floor mounted transformer--move duct lift feet under existing transformer which means you are now moving 112kva over the top of existing transformer--once centered up raise lift to above mounting heigth-install support rack-lower 112kva onto support rack--return duct lift to rental store if you don't buy one ?
 

iwire

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Massachusetts
charlietuna said:
return duct lift to rental store if you don't buy one ?

You could not pay me to use a 'duct lift' especially trying to roll it forward with 650 Lbs raised 4' or 5' feet in the air.

I would use chain falls and if I had to I would swing it in using more then one chain fall as Smart$ suggested.

I have removed and replaced 200 HP motors out of tough spots by passing the load from one chain fall to the next, the whole time in total control of the load.
 

iwire

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Massachusetts
OK maybe that was a little harsh, I just am not personally comfortable with lifting heavy objects up and rolling them around, all it will take is some minor bumps or ruts in the floor before you could have the entire thing toppling over.

I am much more comfortable with chain falls and slings.


To each their own, however you do it, think ahead and work safe. :)
 

charlietuna

Senior Member
my company specialized in high rise office buildings for 25 years and this is a standard method of installation. the first tenant's transformer goes in easy on the floor, but the second and third get tricky since they get mounted in the overhead above the existing. now,ive never owned a new duct lift, both were used but had new stainless steel cables installed on both. like any tool,new or used, common sense must be used. it is important that the load be balanced on the lift and that the lift roll smoothly on the floor. and if safety was an issue, i would schedual a shutdown after hours--disconnect ten wires on the existing transformer-pull it out of the room --mount the 112kva and re-install the original transformer--probably three hour job if properly prepared..................
 
What does the transformer rest upon when the job is done? Do you hang Unistrut from the ceiling on threaded rods or do you build a wall mounted shelf using Unistrut? What's the standard way this gets done?
 

EBFD6

Senior Member
Location
MA
charlietuna said:
i would schedual a shutdown after hours--disconnect ten wires on the existing transformer-pull it out of the room --mount the 112kva and re-install the original transformer

My thoughts exactly
 

Smart $

Esteemed Member
Location
Ohio
EBFD6 said:
charlietuna said:
i would schedual a shutdown after hours--disconnect ten wires on the existing transformer-pull it out of the room --mount the 112kva and re-install the original transformer
My thoughts exactly
Why pull out the exsting?connected and energized?transformer if you don't have to?
 

EBFD6

Senior Member
Location
MA
Smart $ said:
Why pull out the exsting?connected and energized?transformer if you don't have to?

Because it takes a matter of minutes, you can take the existing x-fmr out, hoist the new x-fmr in place with a duct lift (now that the existing one is not in the way), and then put the existing x-fmr back.

Just one option available to you. Others have given their opinions, this just seems to me to be the option I would choose when faced with this decision.

Why reinvent the wheel, so to speak, with off the wall rigging techniques. Keep it simple. JMSHO.
 

Smart $

Esteemed Member
Location
Ohio
EBFD6 said:
Because it takes a matter of minutes, you can take the existing x-fmr out, hoist the new x-fmr in place with a duct lift (now that the existing one is not in the way), and then put the existing x-fmr back.

Just one option available to you. Others have given their opinions, this just seems to me to be the option I would choose when faced with this decision.

Why reinvent the wheel, so to speak, with off the wall rigging techniques. Keep it simple. JMSHO.
Here's some what-if's to enter into your proposed method...
  • The existing transformer is for lighting and convenience power. Now you gotta bring provide or rig some other means for light to work by.
  • The transformer is set on a housekeeping pad. The duct lift's base support struts do not fit around the pad.

charlietuna's estimated time is three hours with a schedule shutdown after business hours... properly prepared. I can say I have set a transformer (wall-mounted above switchgear) with chainfalls, during business hours without interupting power to anything. This includes setting the chainfalls, rigging the transformer, hoisting it, anchoring the thru-wall bracket, lowering the transformer and bolting it to the wall bracket. And this is solo... no one helping me. Two man-hours max with everything needed on site.

Granted the slowest part is the hoisting with chainfalls. What's ten minutes? Who's trying to reinvent the wheel?
 

EBFD6

Senior Member
Location
MA
Smart $ said:
Here's some what-if's to enter into your proposed method...
  • The existing transformer is for lighting and convenience power. Now you gotta bring provide or rig some other means for light to work by.
  • The transformer is set on a housekeeping pad. The duct lift's base support struts do not fit around the pad.

charlietuna's estimated time is three hours with a schedule shutdown after business hours... properly prepared. I can say I have set a transformer (wall-mounted above switchgear) with chainfalls, during business hours without interupting power to anything. This includes setting the chainfalls, rigging the transformer, hoisting it, anchoring the thru-wall bracket, lowering the transformer and bolting it to the wall bracket. And this is solo... no one helping me. Two man-hours max with everything needed on site.

Granted the slowest part is the hoisting with chainfalls. What's ten minutes? Who's trying to reinvent the wheel?

I didn't mean to suggest that I have the only answer to the OP's problem, just one option. We can what if any subject to death.

I have seen a transformer dropped from about 20' onto concrete, pretty much destroyed the transformer. Probably was not rigged properly, I don't know because I was not involved with the task. Now imagine an accident like that that happening hoisting a transformer over another live transformer. Now you have a real disaster on your hands. Like I said, what if?

All I am saying is there is more than one way to accomplish this task, every situation is different and requires a different solution.
 

Smart $

Esteemed Member
Location
Ohio
EBFD6 said:
I didn't mean to suggest that I have the only answer to the OP's problem, just one option. We can what if any subject to death.

I have seen a transformer dropped from about 20' onto concrete, pretty much destroyed the transformer. Probably was not rigged properly, I don't know because I was not involved with the task. Now imagine an accident like that that happening hoisting a transformer over another live transformer. Now you have a real disaster on your hands. Like I said, what if?

All I am saying is there is more than one way to accomplish this task, every situation is different and requires a different solution.
Good point on the working over a live transformer (or live anything for that matter), but I still would not consider removing it... de-energizing is likely the most I would do.

I agree different situations require different solutions, but we must always ask ourselves "what if?" to avoid unsafe solutions.
 
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