refrigerator trips gfci breaker

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Stevenfyeager

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Location
United States, Indiana
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electrical contractor
A customer's refrigerator was tripping a brand new gfci breaker, which I have seen this happen before. The elec inspector would not allow a single receptacle like some do in an unfinished basement. Another elec inspector of the same city told me, buy a six way and plug that into the outlet, and somehow that 'filters' and doesn't trip when plugging the refrig in. It has been a week and it has worked. I told the customer I don't yet trust it enough to go on vacation, 'your food could get ruined.' Have you done this ???
 
Yeah its strange they call it EMI/RFI filtering, I don't think it has to do with surge suppressor component, I used to think it was a gimmik, I think @gar on here has explained how they work.
You can get it as a receptacle:

8380-W

www.leviton.com www.leviton.com

They also make a GFCI device that sounds an alarm when it tripps.
 
tortuga said:
Yeah its strange they call it EMI/RFI filtering, I don't think it has to do with surge suppressor component, I used to think it was a gimmik, I think @gar on here has explained how they work.
You can get it as a receptacle:

8380-W

www.leviton.com www.leviton.com

They also make a GFCI device that sounds an alarm when it tripps.
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That page from your link lists it as a surge protective device. I don't see the words EMI/RFI anywhere. Looks like just a surge protective receptacle.
 
Stevenfyeager said:
A customer's refrigerator was tripping a brand new gfci breaker, which I have seen this happen before. The elec inspector would not allow a single receptacle like some do in an unfinished basement. Another elec inspector of the same city told me, buy a six way and plug that into the outlet, and somehow that 'filters' and doesn't trip when plugging the refrig in. It has been a week and it has worked. I told the customer I don't yet trust it enough to go on vacation, 'your food could get ruined.' Have you done this ???
Click to expand...
Single dedicated receptacle allowances to be non GFCI protected went away back in 2005 NEC I believe. definitely was gone by 2008. Ever since then if in an area mentioned in 210.8, there were no exceptions other than some alarm systems and some snow/ice melting applications.
 
Maybe the adapter is only 2 prong which from my experience cancels out the hot to ground fault of the GFI, I've noticed a GFI connected without a ground does not trip with a GFI button outlet tester.
 
Another C10 said:
Maybe the adapter is only 2 prong which from my experience cancels out the hot to ground fault of the GFI, I've noticed a GFI connected without a ground does not trip with a GFI button outlet tester.
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That is not correct. A GFCI will trip without an EGC. It is truethat a GFCI tester will not work on a circuit that does not have a EGC.
 
Another C10 said:
I've noticed a GFI connected without a ground does not trip with a GFI button outlet tester.
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that because there is no return path for fault current to flow. Want to find out the hard way, plug into an outdoor receptacle with metallic weatherproof cover that for whatever reason is not grounded - press test button and if you happen to be in contact with cover will likely get shocked by it unless you are well insulated yourself, cause pressing test button will energize that cover to 120 volts because it is connected to EGC of your receptacle. If not enough test current flows through you it still might not trip the GFCI either.
 
texie said:
That is not correct. A GFCI will trip without an EGC. It is truethat a GFCI tester will not work on a circuit that does not have a EGC.
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seems to me I've even tried an induction actuated tester like they ol wiggy, without a ground I was not able to simulate the fault, doesn't mean Im correct, just never was able to simulate the trip button without an isolated ground present.
 
Another C10 said:
seems to me I've even tried an induction actuated tester like they ol wiggy, without a ground I was not able to simulate the fault, doesn't mean Im correct, just never was able to simulate the trip button without an isolated ground present.
Click to expand...


All the GFCI tester does is introduce an actual line to ground fault, of at least ~6 mA so that it is above the trip point of the GFCI being tested. No current path means no current to trip it. The test button on the device works without an EGC because it's test current is between one line side conductor and one load side conductor, which still puts an imbalance across the sense coil.
 
kwired said:
All the GFCI tester does is introduce an actual line to ground fault, of at least ~6 mA so that it is above the trip point of the GFCI being tested. No current path means no current to trip it. The test button on the device works without an EGC because it's test current is between one line side conductor and one load side conductor, which still puts an imbalance across the sense coil.
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I agree that the GFI is intended to detect the slightest of imbalance between the hot and neutral although without a ground wire present the GFI does not trip upon command while using the GFI tester which any inspector uses. Its always been the case during my tests. But I did always wonder if the GFI would still regulate a hot to neutral fault aside from an also important hot to ground fault.
 
Another C10 said:
I agree that the GFI is intended to detect the slightest of imbalance between the hot and neutral although without a ground wire present the GFI does not trip upon command while using the GFI tester which any inspector uses. Its always been the case during my tests. But I did always wonder if the GFI would still regulate a hot to neutral fault aside from an also important hot to ground fault.
Click to expand...
A hot to neutral fault would be considered part of the load.
 
ptonsparky said:
A hot to neutral fault would be considered part of the load.
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I guess my concern would be if a frig has a leaking/stray voltage to the chassis from a current carrying neutral would the gfi detect that, being that the neutral and ground could have a potential difference. In other words a bare footed person on tile or concrete floor touches the metal frame with the reference of the current carrying neutral could it seek out a path of least resistance through the persons feet. I could be wrong.
 
Another C10 said:
I agree that the GFI is intended to detect the slightest of imbalance between the hot and neutral although without a ground wire present the GFI does not trip upon command while using the GFI tester which any inspector uses. Its always been the case during my tests. But I did always wonder if the GFI would still regulate a hot to neutral fault aside from an also important hot to ground fault.
Click to expand...
As I was trying to explain, it is current driven response. There must be fault current flowing or it will not trip. When I explained the energized weatherproof cover situation was a perfect example. Pressing the test button in that situation puts the "hot" conductor in series with a test resistor in the tester, and then puts it in series with the EGC terminal of the receptacle. If the EGC terminal has no path to the source, then that weatherproof cover is bonded to the receptacle EGC via mounting screws and sits there at 120 volts to actual ground because there is no path for current to flow. With no current there is no voltage drop across the tester resistor just an extension so to speak through the components mentioned. Once current does flow, the resistor will limit that current - will still be enough current that if you become the path it will shock you, but the GFCI won't respond if current doesn't rise above it's trip level of 4-6 mA.
 
Another C10 said:
I agree that the GFI is intended to detect the slightest of imbalance between the hot and neutral although without a ground wire present the GFI does not trip upon command while using the GFI tester which any inspector uses. Its always been the case during my tests. But I did always wonder if the GFI would still regulate a hot to neutral fault aside from an also important hot to ground fault.
Click to expand...
The only approved way to test a GFCI is the onboard test button, a plug in analyser is a convenience but will not work on a two wire GFCI. If an inspector turned down a job because his plug in tester didn't trip a GFCI he needs some educating.

Roger
 
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