push-in wire connectors (WAGO's)

[g-and-h_electric]

Hey guys I am just curious have any of us used these on a regular basis for branch circuit wiring, and if so what are your thoughts.

I am personally not sure if I trust them any more than a "back stab" on a wiring device. Just thought I would ask . I still like a twisted connection with a "wire-nut", as it seem more solid (almost like a PROPERLY done solder and tape connection).

Anyway, just curious what the opinions are.


Howard

 

[Jerramundi]

Me personally, I wholeheartedly DESPISE these types of connectors as I do backstabs.

When I come across them, for example, on a recessed can light, I cut them off and use wire nuts. I've gotten guff for it and had GC's claim that I'm adding unnecessary T+M, but that's bs micromanaging, IMO.

I agree with you that twisting the conductors and a wire nut is a better, more solid connection. I CAN'T easily yank a wire out of a wire nut if done correctly. I CAN easily yank a wire out of one of these guys. If you can't give the wire a little tug to test the connection without it breaking, it's a poor connection, IMO.

 

[brantmacga]

My company collectively installs thousands of these connectors every year. No problems with them. It’s all I use now for branch circuits.


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[James L]

They're handy, that's for sure. But only sometimes.

I tried using them regularly, but it became too much of a hassle to keep all the different varieties in my pouch and try to make efficient use of the time.

If you use red wire nuts, it's good for 2-7 #14 conductors. But Wagos have various number of ports. I guess I'm just not crazy about leaving empty ports, so I use the one I need.

Additionally, the biggest I've seen is 8-port. Really kinda sucks making up grounds in a 3-or 4-gang box, where you have 6 to 8 grounds and need to add in 3 or 4 pigtails. Then you're jumping between 2 Wagos.

To top that off, I've seen horrendous user error. The way they're designed, the wire has to be 100% STRAIGHT. Otherwise it doesn't make a good connection. I've seen them burned up from poor connection.

Very similar to using a backstab receptacle or switch, which I am absolutely a fan of. It's UL listed for that purpose and it lasts longer than an average car - which, btw, people buy at all kinds of price and quality levels and nobody squawks about banning the cheap ones.

I had a job once, where Wagos saved the day (really the week). It was a vandalized home. All the home runs had been cut out of the basement, right at the floor. I literally had about an inch of wire to work with. I had to dcrew a 1900 box to the subfloor and pigtail with Wagos to have enough to work with for my junctions. Altogether about 30 cables were that way

 

[James L]

My company collectively installs thousands of these connectors every year. No problems with them. It’s all I use now for branch circuits.


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Do you carry multiple sizes in one pouch or you carry separate containers around?

 

[Little Bill]

I've been using them for close to 10 years with no problems. I usually only use them in 2+ gang switch boxes but don't hesitate to use them on receptacles. If I know that a receptacle might have space heaters plugged in then I will use wire nuts or the screws on the receps. I know they are rated for the draw from space heaters, I just prefer not to use them there. Sometimes I have to if the wire is too short to reach the receptacle and too short to get in there to twist a wire nut on.

All in all, I like and trust the push-in connectors. If it will help ease you're mind, you can't really compare them to back stabbed devices. For one, there is more contact area on the Wagos than there is on back stabs, the clamping spring is stronger. The biggest difference is, for example, on a back stabbed receptacle there is movement everytime you plug/unplug something. That can cause the wire to move and eventually work loose. With the push-in/Wagos, the Wago is not attached to the receptacle and plugging/unplugging doesn't effect the connection.

 

[retirede]

Over time, Wagos have proven to be reliable. Conversely, back-stabbed devices have not.

There is no comparison.

 

[Jerramundi]

Well. I didn't anticipate being the odd man out on this one, haha.

I still hate 'em. I see little to zero advantage in using them. The only POTENTIAL positive arguments I see for these guys are:
(1) Ease of Connection and (2) Time Saved.

Personally, I think the "easier connection" argument is just perpetuated by people who never learned how to do a good splice.. like the GC who thinks he's an electrician and knows as much as you do. Note well - I'm not saying that this applies to the guys who have commented here, but it has been my personal experience. GC's don't want to take the time and effort it takes to perfect splicing methods like true electricians do. They just want something quick and easy that they can use to maximize their bottom line and have the cheap laborers be able to install.

I also think the time saving argument is complete nonsense. No time saved if you know how to strip and splice well. At best, it might be milliseconds per splice that adds up to less than a minute on a larger job. Micromanagement at its' finest.

 

[wwhitney]

I'm a fan of the Wago Lever Nuts:

221 sample order

WAGO - Innovative products for automation and connection technology as well as individual solutions for your industry. Find out more here!

www.wago.com

Cheers, Wayne

 

[brantmacga]

Do you carry multiple sizes in one pouch or you carry separate containers around?

We have a pre fab shop so usually the connectors are already in the box.

But I personally carry a case of 2 through 8 ports when making connections.


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[brantmacga]

I also think the time saving argument is complete nonsense. No time saved if you know how to strip and splice well. At best, it might be milliseconds per splice that adds up to less than a minute on a larger job. Micromanagement at its' finest.

Disagree wholeheartedly with the numbers to prove it. At my scale there are considerable labor savings.


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[Jerramundi]

Disagree wholeheartedly with the numbers to prove it. At my scale there are considerable labor savings.

I know for a fact I can do a SOLID wire-nut splice just as fast as anyone who installs one of these... but it's because I've invested endless hours in perfecting my splices both on and off the job. At best, they might beat me by milliseconds.

 

[tom baker]

Electricians tend to be pretty traditional. In my pouch I reach for the 3M wire nuts, or the tan ones.
I may try some out.

 

[Jerramundi]

Agree to disagree. I just know if I had any newbies I wouldn't allow them to use these until year 10 if I used them at all. There's no thought involved. Whereas I can describe 10 different ways to do a solid to stranded splice.

I wasn't allowed to use anything but a hacksaw for the first 5 years, lol. It felt like my birthday the day I first picked up a bandsaw, lol.

 

[James L]

I also think the time saving argument is complete nonsense. No time saved if you know how to strip and splice well. At best, it might be milliseconds per splice that adds up to less than a minute on a larger job. Micromanagement at its' finest.

I agree there's no real time savings when making up plugs or switches. Especially if you're fumbling through a variety of six or eight different types, or you have more wires than what you can stab into one Wago.

But they are a real time-saver on can lights if they are already connected to the fixture wire.

 

[James L]

Over time, Wagos have proven to be reliable. Conversely, back-stabbed devices have not.

There is no comparison.

I'd disagree about backstabbed receps not being reliable. How many fail compared to the number used? 1 fail out of every 2 million or so installed?

That's super reliable

 

[brantmacga]

I know for a fact I can do a SOLID wire-nut splice just as fast as anyone who installs one of these... but it's because I've invested endless hours in perfecting my splices both on and off the job. At best, they might beat me by milliseconds.

If I had 30 of you, I wouldn’t have to worry about it, but I don’t ..... so I use push on connectors. It may not be faster for you, but for the average guy, it is. And I’ve got a lot of average guys.


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[James L]

If I had 30 of you, I wouldn’t have to worry about it, but I don’t ..... so I use push on connectors. It may not be faster for you, but for the average guy, it is. And I’ve got a lot of average guys.


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I was thinking the same thing. They're a hassle for me, and not any faster. But for a lot of guys they would be. Especially if they're not proficient with all their tools.

I'm looking around at those guys shaking my head because they're so slow. Good grief, anything to help them

 

[James L]

Agree to disagree. I just know if I had any newbies I wouldn't allow them to use these until year 10 if I used them at all. There's no thought involved. Whereas I can describe 10 different ways to do a solid to stranded splice.

That 10-year thing is probably not a bad idea. Really.

 

[Fred B]

The one thing I see as an advantage is they take up a lot less space in a small receptacle box, (although no difference on box fill calculations) but they don't work well with stranded wire, lever nuts by wago however I really like, especially for fixture connection of light with stranded wire.

AFA safety, I wonder if anyone has done a thermal image study of push connect vs twisters under load. That would show if there was any appreciable area for concern as it has done for back stabs that show excessive termination heating compared to properly tightened screw connections.