Is AFCI required here

[Fred B]

Question on AFCI requirements. Is AFCI required on a dishwasher circuit? Under most circumstances I would say yes, it is in the kitchen and under 210.12(A) an area that has to be provided with arc fault protection. But this installation is different, all plumbing and power cord goes into unfinished basement, (yes it is a plug and cord) there is a single 20A receptacle and a blankface gfci located for easy access. So now basement doesn't require AFCI, so is the dishwasher a "device" under that section of code thus requiring an AFCI or is it now exempt because plug for the appliance is in a non-afci space?

 

[brother]

Question on AFCI requirements. Is AFCI required on a dishwasher circuit? Under most circumstances I would say yes, it is in the kitchen and under 210.12(A) an area that has to be provided with arc fault protection. But this installation is different, all plumbing and power cord goes into unfinished basement, (yes it is a plug and cord) there is a single 20A receptacle and a blankface gfci located for easy access. So now basement doesn't require AFCI, so is the dishwasher a "device" under that section of code thus requiring an AFCI or is it now exempt because plug for the appliance is in a non-afci space?

My question would be if they are installing a dishwasher in a 'so called' basement, is this a food preparation area? I assume this is residential. If the answer is yes, then it would be considered a kitchen and yes it would need an AFCI.

 

[Bluegrass Boy]

Fred , is the cord dropping through a hole in the floor down into basement to plug? I might be wrong, but I think that may be against code.

 

[Fred B]

Fred , is the cord dropping through a hole in the floor down into basement to plug? I might be wrong, but I think that may be against code.

That's what done. If there is a code reference that would be good, as I've seen this done many times on corded DWs (maybe violation?), this is the first I've had to work on one done that way. (Updating wiring) most I've done have been hardwired. Mfg's installed cord set doesn't appear to be long enough to have the DW pulled out of place and an adult get behind it for a receptacle placed there unless maybe you're small child or arms as long as Kareem.

 

[ptonsparky]

GFCI. 422.5(A)(7) NEC 2020
AFCI. 210.12 (A) "

 

[brother]

Fred , is the cord dropping through a hole in the floor down into basement to plug? I might be wrong, but I think that may be against code.


That's what done. If there is a code reference that would be good, as I've seen this done many times on corded DWs (maybe violation?), this is the first I've had to work on one done that way. (Updating wiring) most I've done have been hardwired. Mfg's installed cord set doesn't appear to be long enough to have the DW pulled out of place and an adult get behind it for a receptacle placed there unless maybe you're small child or arms as long as Kareem.

Cords, uses not permitted. NEC 2020 400.12 (2)

 

[Fred B]

Cords, uses not permitted. NEC 2020 400.12 (2)

Wow, Never looked for it, whoever is doing these DW installs here have been repeatedly violating code then. Guess this one I'll have to rewire all the way up. Got to get it somewhere the cord can be reached. But how is 422.16(B)(2)(7) compliance made "The receptacle shall be accessible." ? It's not accessible behind a fixed in place DW. That seems to be what the installer was aiming for, don't really know.
Also given the receptacle location will now be within that 6 ft boundary of kitchen sink it will need to be gfi protected regardless of condition in 422.5(A)..... (references from 2017 NEC) NYS is on 2017 code.
AFA the GFCI protection, can that still be in basement as a blank face?
Oh, and add AFCI.

 

[shortcircuit2]

It is still permitted to "hard wire" a dishwasher.

 

[Fred B]

It is still permitted to "hard wire" a dishwasher.

But removing a factory installed appliance plug, is that allowed?

 

[brother]

Wow, Never looked for it, whoever is doing these DW installs here have been repeatedly violating code then. Guess this one I'll have to rewire all the way up. Got to get it somewhere the cord can be reached. But how is 422.16(B)(2)(7) compliance made "The receptacle shall be accessible." ? It's not accessible behind a fixed in place DW. That seems to be what the installer was aiming for, don't really know.
Also given the receptacle location will now be within that 6 ft boundary of kitchen sink it will need to be gfi protected regardless of condition in 422.5(A)..... (references from 2017 NEC) NYS is on 2017 code.
AFA the GFCI protection, can that still be in basement as a blank face?
Oh, and add AFCI.

The gfci can be anywhere in the house so long as its 'readily accessible', even though I am use to seeing it close by. Is there reason why the dishwasher cannot be hardwired behind it and have enough flex or romex to be able to move it out? Or what about installing the (gfci?)receptacle under a sink in the kitchen and having a cut out for the cord to pass through the cabinet sides? assuming the dishwasher is installed right by a sink. (cabinets sides are not walls so there is no nec violation as far as I know),

 

[Fred B]

The gfci can be anywhere in the house so long as its 'readily accessible', even though I am use to seeing it close by. Is there reason why the dishwasher cannot be hardwired behind it and have enough flex or romex to be able to move it out? Or what about installing the (gfci?)receptacle under a sink in the kitchen and having a cut out for the cord to pass through the cabinet sides? assuming the dishwasher is installed right by a sink. (cabinets sides are not walls so there is no nec violation as far as I know),

AFA in side of adjacent cabinets, either sides have slider or drawers, so a receptacle inside would be ill advised. As to hardwiring, (was always my preference) this DW comes factory wired with plug cord set, so removal of factory part I'm not sure of, is that an integral part of the appliance listing? Can I cut off cord from a toaster or microwave and hard wire it? Don't know, but don't think so.

 

[Fred B]

Can an in floor receptacle be used if it is reachable for service, and would it be considered accessible behind the toe kick cover?

 

[brother]

AFA in side of adjacent cabinets, either sides have slider or drawers, so a receptacle inside would be ill advised. As to hardwiring, (was always my preference) this DW comes factory wired with plug cord set, so removal of factory part I'm not sure of, is that an integral part of the appliance listing? Can I cut off cord from a toaster or microwave and hard wire it? Don't know, but don't think so.

I think you can ask the manufacturer about hardwiring the diswasher if you want to go that route, because i have seen that down many of times. I am having a hard time picturing your set up of the kitchen lower cabinets, especially under the sink. there are usually no drawers under the kitchen sink, where they can also install a garbage disposal, and the because of the piping requirements for the dishwasher it is usually right beside the kitchen sink.

 

[Fred B]

I think you can ask the manufacturer about hardwiring the diswasher if you want to go that route, because i have seen that down many of times. I am having a hard time picturing your set up of the kitchen lower cabinets, especially under the sink. there are usually no drawers under the kitchen sink, where they can also install a garbage disposal, and the because of the piping requirements for the dishwasher it is usually right beside the kitchen sink.

DW is plumbed directly into basement, under sink is retractable towel rack on far side and kitchen garbage on slider rack on near side.

 

[rnatalie]

Hard wiring gets you out of the GFCI requirement, but not the AFCI.

 

[ptonsparky]

Hard wiring gets you out of the GFCI requirement, but not the AFCI.

The last I knew, dishwashers were appliances. Refer to 422.5(A).

If you are under the 2020

 

[ramsy]

Can I cut off cord from a toaster or microwave and hard wire it?

If cord is listed for appliances, and not smaller than 16 AWG, in violation of 240.4(D)(1).

 

[ramsy]

But removing a factory installed appliance plug, is that allowed?

Appliance junction box for the cord should include half-inch knockouts that can except raceway whips.

 

[ramsy]

Cords, uses not permitted. NEC 2020 400.12 (2)

Can penetrations be sleeved with PVC to qualify as a chapter 3 wiring method between floors?

 

[hbiss]

Appliance junction box for the cord should include half-inch knockouts that can except raceway whips.

I agree, so it depends. Does this dishwasher have a line cord usually secured with a Romex connector going into a J box or wiring compartment? Then you certainly can remove it. However, if the line cord goes directly into the appliance with no way to get at it then you consider it permanently attached.

It's been awhile, but I never saw a DW with a line cord. Usually I would bring the supply up through the floor, put a 1900 box on it with a disconnect switch and from there to the DW. That way you can remove the bottom DW panel and reach in to get at the switch. The 1900 box isn't fastened to anything so the DW can be slid into place.

Can penetrations be sleeved with PVC to qualify as a chapter 3 wiring method between floors?

NOPE!! Flexible cords cannot pass through floors or walls, period.

-Hal