Wire prices - getting sadder by the day

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goldstar

goldstar

Senior Member
Location
New Jersey
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Electrical Contractor
So, I thought I'd bite the bullet and get a few 250' coils of 14/2, 14/3 and 12/2 just to have on the truck. I went to a HD in Paterson, NJ (which is an enterprise zone - meaning you pay half the State sales tax). In addition, I would get an additional 10% off because I'm a military veteran. Low and behold there was NO 14/2 or 14/3 on the shelves. The 12/2 is now $140.00 per coil. It was about $60.00 in February of this year. I can't help but think that HD and Lowe's are profiteering on the copper shortages. They buy hundreds of pallets at a time that are sent to their distribution centers. They re-value ALL their inventory every time they buy more wire. That includes ALL the EXISTING inventory in their stores. That (LIFO) method of inventory valuing is generally reserved for businesses like gas stations who are unable to determine which gas was put in the tank first and last.

Granted, we can all say that we can just pass the rise in cost along to our customers but if the prices keep going up as rapidly as they have we won't have any customers to charge. Needless to say, I did not buy the coil of 12/2. I'll buy it when I need it and charge the customer accordingly (if they accept my price) :-(
 
That is a shocking increase. And the Govt. still says inflation is low. Because cable is not in the "basket" of goods they measure for inflation.
I wonder if lumber is, it's a shocker now too.
 
It seems to me that one of two things are going to happen. One is that the high prices are here to stay and inflation is getting ready to go parabolic. The other is that the economy slows to reduce prices. Either one is bad.

I long for the days of 1-2% growth and stable prices.
 
goldstar said:
So, I thought I'd bite the bullet and get a few 250' coils of 14/2, 14/3 and 12/2 just to have on the truck. I went to a HD in Paterson, NJ (which is an enterprise zone - meaning you pay half the State sales tax). In addition, I would get an additional 10% off because I'm a military veteran. Low and behold there was NO 14/2 or 14/3 on the shelves. The 12/2 is now $140.00 per coil. It was about $60.00 in February of this year.
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How do big box store prices compare to buying NM cable at a electrical supply house?
 
infinity said:
How do big box store prices compare to buying NM cable at a electrical supply house?
Click to expand...
From past experience I found the supply houses to be generally more than the big box stores on NM cable. The reason being that the supply houses usually buy one pallet of say 12/2 NM-b cable at a time while the big box stores by 100's of pallets (nation-wide) and ship to a distribution center from which they supply their local stores. They have to be getting better bulk prices than the small supply houses do just based on the quantity they buy. The supply houses can't compete at that level on wire IMHO. Just as an example, one of my local supply houses charges about $10-$15 more for a coil of 14/2 than HD does. I just never buy NM cable at these supply houses. Because of past experience I never bother to check prices because I know the price at HD is less.

By the same token, I buy most all of my other installation materials at any of the 4 local supply houses in my area. The cost differences are negligible and I'd rather buy from them than the big box stores. Because the cost differences on wire are much higher at the small supply house I choose to buy that item at HD or Lowe's.
 
I tend to buy anything smaller than 10 AWG NM at HD and everything else from my other suppliers based on price.

I bought some 12/2 NM from HD on 5/4 and it was $122 for 250 ft. I just checked Platt electric inline and they show $214.46 for 250 ft!

Check out the copper market prices attached.
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flashlight said:
And the Govt. still says inflation is low. Because cable is not in the "basket" of goods they measure for inflation. I wonder if lumber is, it's a shocker now too.
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Well, what's the ratio of size of the cable and lumber markets to the market of all good sold in the US? If it's 1:1000, then doubling prices would only be 0.1% short term inflation. And commodity prices are notoriously spiky, so once the post-covid supply disruptions have worked themselves out, price will fall again (likely not all the way to their 2019 levels). That's not broad inflation.

Cheers, Wayne
 
goldstar said:
From past experience I found the supply houses to be generally more than the big box stores on NM cable. The reason being that the supply houses usually buy one pallet of say 12/2 NM-b cable at a time while the big box stores by 100's of pallets (nation-wide) and ship to a distribution center from which they supply their local stores. They have to be getting better bulk prices than the small supply houses do just based on the quantity they buy. The supply houses can't compete at that level on wire IMHO. Just as an example, one of my local supply houses charges about $10-$15 more for a coil of 14/2 than HD does. I just never buy NM cable at these supply houses. Because of past experience I never bother to check prices because I know the price at HD is less.

By the same token, I buy most all of my other installation materials at any of the 4 local supply houses in my area. The cost differences are negligible and I'd rather buy from them than the big box stores. Because the cost differences on wire are much higher at the small supply house I choose to buy that item at HD or Lowe's.
Click to expand...
But supply house is buying THHN/THWN and other cable types in bigger bulk than most big box stores, so maybe evens the bulk pricing out to some extent. Yes often big box is still less for 250 foot or 1000 foot reels of 12 and 14 AWG NM. They do make much higher margin on those short 15,25,50, 100 foot lengths of cable though
 
I figured that the big box stores had better prices on cable. I need to buy some aluminum SER cable (1/0-1/0-1/0-2) and Home Depot has it for 2.38/foot. Not sure if my local supply house would even come close to that price.
 
The local big blue has gone digital price signs on the shelves, the pro desk guy I know say they are now controlled by corporate directly because it take too long for associates to go through and change all the prices. He says he's seen the price now going up on some items twice a day.
 
infinity said:
I figured that the big box stores had better prices on cable. I need to buy some aluminum SER cable (1/0-1/0-1/0-2) and Home Depot has it for 2.38/foot. Not sure if my local supply house would even come close to that price.
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My primary supply house is currently at $1.50 for that cable.
 
Fred B said:
The local big blue has gone digital price signs on the shelves, the pro desk guy I know say they are now controlled by corporate directly because it take too long for associates to go through and change all the prices. He says he's seen the price now going up on some items twice a day.
Click to expand...
Gas stations figured this out years ago.
 
During normal times I typically find HD to be very close to the same price as my suppliers for 12/2 and 14/2 Sometimes a little more and sometimes a little less. 14/3 and other sizes of NM is almost always more expensive at HD.

The suppliers purchase more frequently than HD so there prices follow what they pay and the commodity market. HD makes large purchase agreements so there prices don't fluctuate as much. My suppliers also tell me they work off some type of averaging system based on current inventory and what they pay for new orders. A few weeks ago the price they were selling 12/2 and 14/2 was below what they just paid due to existing inventory.

Right now 2 of my suppliers are ~$200 for 12/2 and ~$130 for 14/2. My primary supplier has over 300,000 feet of each in stock.

I have been surprised that HD has not increased the sales price to be closer to the suppliers prices. Why not make an extra $50/roll?

I have been in Lowes a few times recently getting some wood for a garage storage project. I walked down the electrical isle and they have had the same 5 rolls of 14/2 sitting there and zero 12/2, 14/3 or 12/3. Local Lowes stores are primarily Southwire and HD's are Cerro. I'm guessing Southwire is not getting inventory to Lowes but HD is getting inventory from Cerro or they have it in a distribution center.
 
Fred B said:
The local big blue has gone digital price signs on the shelves, the pro desk guy I know say they are now controlled by corporate directly because it take too long for associates to go through and change all the prices. He says he's seen the price now going up on some items twice a day.
Click to expand...
Sounds like you need to run to the cashier after pulling your items or they may go up before you check out:eek:
 
goldstar said:
So, I thought I'd bite the bullet and get a few 250' coils of 14/2, 14/3 and 12/2 just to have on the truck. I went to a HD in Paterson, NJ (which is an enterprise zone - meaning you pay half the State sales tax). In addition, I would get an additional 10% off because I'm a military veteran. Low and behold there was NO 14/2 or 14/3 on the shelves. The 12/2 is now $140.00 per coil. It was about $60.00 in February of this year. I can't help but think that HD and Lowe's are profiteering on the copper shortages. They buy hundreds of pallets at a time that are sent to their distribution centers. They re-value ALL their inventory every time they buy more wire. That includes ALL the EXISTING inventory in their stores. That (LIFO) method of inventory valuing is generally reserved for businesses like gas stations who are unable to determine which gas was put in the tank first and last.

Granted, we can all say that we can just pass the rise in cost along to our customers but if the prices keep going up as rapidly as they have we won't have any customers to charge. Needless to say, I did not buy the coil of 12/2. I'll buy it when I need it and charge the customer accordingly (if they accept my price) :-(
Click to expand...
If HD buys NM at $25 per roll and sells it at $50 per roll, how much profit have they made when they pay $75 per roll to restock?
 
kwired said:
How much do they lose on older stock when prices are declining?
Click to expand...

Probably nothing. I think companies like that don't lose money. They seem quick to increase and slow to bring prices back down. They buy so much material company wide they're pretty much a market maker.
 
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