Re identification of neutral wire

[Djelite]

Hi is the following a loop hole in the code book or always interested this way? The re identification of a neutral wire by any color except green is allowed 4awg and higher. The re I’d of any phase color wire to another phase color is allowed in any size. So if you have a 12/3 mc cable black red white technically it can be re I’d to brown orange gray(because a neutral wire is white or grey..

 

[infinity]

A white condcutor of any size in a cable can be re-identified as an ungrounded conductor. A white conductor in a raceway can not be re-identified. Yes, a 3 condcutor BL/RD/WH cable can be re-indentified as BR/OR/GR

 

[Fred B]

I would not say it's a loop hole. A loop hole is an unintended allowance as a result of not addressing a topic or issue specifically. This is an intentional allowance for reindentifying a conductor so as to be used in a manner the color of the conductor would not normally be used, when done within specific criteria.

 

[Djelite]

yes but don’t you see the contradiction? Plus the wording in my opinion is off. Re identifying of a neutral wire when in fact it’s a re I’d of a color wire to become a neutral wire

 

[roger]

yes but don’t you see the contradiction? Plus the wording in my opinion is off. Re identifying of a neutral wire when in fact it’s a re I’d of a color wire to become a neutral wire

There is no contradiction, it is specifically allowed in "cable assemblies"

Roger

 

[romex jockey]

Yes, a 3 condcutor BL/RD/WH cable can be re-indentified as BR/OR/GR

i didn't know that......~RJ~

 

[kwired]

yes but don’t you see the contradiction? Plus the wording in my opinion is off. Re identifying of a neutral wire when in fact it’s a re I’d of a color wire to become a neutral wire

You can identify a conductor with about anything you want. Numbers is pretty common.

Grounded and grounding conductors are pretty much restricted to white/gray or green/green with yellow stripe, or bare conductor.

Cable assemblies is about only place you can re-identify a white or gray as an ungrounded conductor in certain situations though.

Grounded/grounding conductors must be the correct color for the application the entire length of the conductor unless 4 AWG and larger then they can be marked at/near ends of the conductor. (a pull box or conduit body with no splices or terminations inside has no "ends" within it and conductors would not need marked in those places)

 

[LarryFine]

yes but don’t you see the contradiction? Plus the wording in my opinion is off. Re identifying of a neutral wire when in fact it’s a re I’d of a color wire to become a neutral wire

There is no such thing as a "neutral wire", only wire colors. A white wire is whatever it is because of how we terminate it.

Wires and cables are made with certain color combinations, and the code is written to allow us to use them as needed.

White #6 and smaller must be used as a grounded conductor in conduits because there is no excuse for not doing so.

 

[DrSparks]

You can identify a conductor with about anything you want. Numbers is pretty common.

Grounded and grounding conductors are pretty much restricted to white/gray or green/green with yellow stripe, or bare conductor.

Cable assemblies is about only place you can re-identify a white or gray as an ungrounded conductor in certain situations though.

Grounded/grounding conductors must be the correct color for the application the entire length of the conductor unless 4 AWG and larger then they can be marked at/near ends of the conductor. (a pull box or conduit body with no splices or terminations inside has no "ends" within it and conductors would not need marked in those places)

I prefer to use Egyptian hieroglyphs. As long as it's consistent through the facility and posted.

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[Eddie702]

There is no such thing as a "neutral wire", only wire colors. A white wire is whatever it is because of how we terminate it.

Wires and cables are made with certain color combinations, and the code is written to allow us to use them as needed.

White #6 and smaller must be used as a grounded conductor in conduits because there is no excuse for not doing so.

Unless you don't have any on the truck LOL

 

[DrSparks]

The reason they allow #4 and larger to be reidentified is because colors are not widely available and it's more cost effective to warehouse spools of black than having to have a bunch of colors.

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[GoldDigger]

You can identify a conductor with about anything you want. Numbers is pretty common.

Grounded and grounding conductors are pretty much restricted to white/gray or green/green with yellow stripe, or bare conductor.

Cable assemblies is about only place you can re-identify a white or gray as an ungrounded conductor in certain situations though.

Grounded/grounding conductors must be the correct color for the application the entire length of the conductor unless 4 AWG and larger then they can be marked at/near ends of the conductor. (a pull box or conduit body with no splices or terminations inside has no "ends" within it and conductors would not need marked in those places)

I was under the impression that it had to be identified anywhere that it would be possible to make a connection (even if it required an insulation piercing connector. So probably pull box that contained other pipes, but not necessarily a conduit body.
Any authoritative statements or AHJ anecdotes on that point?
If by pull box you mean one where there is only one entry and one exit and no other circuits, I think I would agree.

 

[DrSparks]

I was under the impression that it had to be identified anywhere that it would be possible to make a connection (even if it required an insulation piercing connector. So probably pull box that contained other pipes, but not necessarily a conduit body.
Any authoritative statements or AHJ anecdotes on that point?
If by pull box you mean one where there is only one entry and one exit and no other circuits, I think I would agree.

I believe that is correct. Conductors pulled tight through a jbox with no free conductor would be excluded. The same rule applies to neutral grouping.

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[kwired]

The reason they allow #4 and larger to be reidentified is because colors are not widely available and it's more cost effective to warehouse spools of black than having to have a bunch of colors.

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I think that once was the case, but anymore you seem to be able to purchase about any color at any size, though your local supplier may not have them in their branch they maybe do have them at another branch (often the main store or distribution center within their organization).

 

[tom baker]

The reason you can not reidentify 6 and smaller is thise are the sizes that are likely to be changed over the life of a bldg. 4 and larger are not likely to be changed. Today as pointed out you can get any color in any size. 20 years ago it was 4 and larger black only, but this rule has been around before I started in 1978.

 

[Djelite]

The reason they allow #4 and larger to be reidentified is because colors are not widely available and it's more cost effective to warehouse spools of black than having to have a bunch of colors.

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My point exactly. Sometimes its not about safety but about dollars

 

[Djelite]

There is no such thing as a "neutral wire", only wire colors. A white wire is whatever it is because of how we terminate it.

Wires and cables are made with certain color combinations, and the code is written to allow us to use them as needed.

White #6 and smaller must be used as a grounded conductor in conduits because there is no excuse for not doing so.

You might be wrong with that statement but thank you

 

[Djelite]

The reason you can not reidentify 6 and smaller is thise are the sizes that are likely to be changed over the life of a bldg. 4 and larger are not likely to be changed. Today as pointed out you can get any color in any size. 20 years ago it was 4 and larger black only, but this rule has been around before I started in 1978.

Thank you . This rule makes no sense imp.

 

[readydave8]

You might be wrong with that statement but thank you

there were 3 statements in Larry Fine post, which one might be wrong?

 

[Djelite]

there were 3 statements in Larry Fine post, which one might be wrong

there were 3 statements in Larry Fine post, which one might be wrong?

Theres no thing as a neutral wire