The Most [INSERT ADJECTIVE HERE] Power System You've Ever Worked On?

[xptpcrewx]

Looking to hear about some of the most unique, unconventional, distinctive, bizarre, perplexing, insane, confounding, historic, worst, best, etc. etc. power systems you've ever encountered in your careers.

Lets try to start each post with the adjective of choice followed by the corresponding experience... Have at it...

 

[tom baker]

At the enterprise prototype reactor A1W in Idaho Falls there was a at the time largest horizontal shaft generator that was a load for the steam turbine, instead of a prop. The steam turbine was 200,000 hp. The power from the generator went to three huge copper plates in circ water . The reactor plant was started and stopped often so it could not be connected to the grid . This was all for the A reactor. The B reactor (2 per engine room) was connected to a dump condensor, it ran at 100% power when I was there to deplete the core. The B plant had 1/4 of the Nimitz core, so the navy wanted to know how the core was working. This was in 73, Cold War, cost did not matter. The enterprise had 4 engine rooms, 8 reactors. Nimitz class had 2 reactors.

 

[mbrooke]

I'll just say the Con Edison & NYPA power system, which would hit at least half those adjectives. There is no system in the world like it on many levels, and there may never be again. The concept of parelleling thousands of LV transformers on their secondaries is both asinine and brilliant at the same time, as well as consolidating 6+ distinct transmission zones of protection into one for space savings but off set by replication of them. A failure of any bus or breaker results in no outages through alternation of supply and load. Self healing transmission cables and a protection system that must take into account phase angle regulators and series reactors, many of which are switched seasonally. Fault current is another story, but I will say that a genius of computational engineering and operational excellence has achieved that their 345 and 138kv faciltiies do not exceed 63,000 amps fault current.

Personally I think the Company should be nominated for a Nobel prize.

 

[Besoeker3]

Looking to hear about some of the most unique, unconventional, distinctive, bizarre, perplexing, insane, confounding, historic, worst, best, etc. etc. power systems you've ever encountered in your careers.

Lets try to start each post with the adjective of choice followed by the corresponding experience... Have at it...

Experience? Pretty much all over the world.
11kV, 6.650MW variable speed drive,
40,000A 40V anodising rectifiers.
13.6kV 30MW turbines.

One of the more interesting projects was for the Orient Express in Europe. Or the gold mines in South Africa.

 

[infinity]

The dumbest I say that in terms of engineering was a power conditioned, 240Y/139 volt system for a testing facility for popular housekeeping magazine. It starts as a way to derive 240 volts for 1Ø ovens, ranges, clothes dryers and cook-tops from a 480 volt Wye system. The thought was that these appliances were to be tested utilizing 240 volts as would be in a home. All of the branch circuits were sub-metered so they could accurately check the current/power, etc. that each appliance was using whe running.

Then they had 120 volt receptacle circuits to test other appliances and still utilize the sub-metering system. No one realized that the 120 volt receptacles all had 139 volts on them which made the circuits useless for resistive equipment testing. Also the sub-metering system was designed for 120 volts to ground not 139 volts so that had problems as well. Fortunately I left that project and I never found out how or if they solved the problem.

 

[xptpcrewx]

Most Historic/Unique/Messed-Up/Butchered

The Detroit-Windsor Tunnel - (On the U.S.A side) This was originally a 4.6-kV, ungrounded, two-source primary, breaker-and-a-half?, three-bus, secondary selective system, which was also fed by two additional incoming alternate source feeders supplied by the Canadian (Windsor) side routed under the Detroit River (via an international highway tunnel). On the Canadian side, an identical power system existed - also with two alternate source feeders fed from the Detroit, MI side, except that on the Canadian side, the primary system was originally 4-kV, ungrounded (very strange). The total number of sources is four, with two serving utilities involved, one located in Detroit, MI and the other located in Windsor, Ontario, but cross-tied for redundancy by four feeders - two incoming and two outgoing. To add another layer, the secondary distribution system also utilized an auxiliary bus which fed six singe-ended, primary-selective unit-substations.

In the beginning, the switchgear was all open, exposed live-front equipment with knife switches...


Throughout the years, people have came and gone, upgraded/replaced equipment, retrofitted devices, etc. so now its a beat-up 4.8-kV, low-resistance grounded converted, two-source primary, two-bus, secondary selective system (on both Detroit and Windsor sides). The secondary distribution system now has double-ended secondary-selective unit-substations. My involvement at this site was to provide support to the field-services team, who failed miserably to integrate new protective relays and translate settings as part of a service contract. In the process of executing our main scope of work, I began to notice odd things, and started to look beyond our portion of the work. I discovered how messed-up and mis-applied the culmination of all the "so-called" upgrades over the years were. I saw remnants of the ungrounded system, inadequate ground-fault detection, misapplied devices and protection settings, emergency source deficiencies, hacked-together automatic throw-over logic, overall lack of documentation, etc...

 

[xptpcrewx]

I'll just say the Con Edison & NYPA power system, which would hit at least half those adjectives. There is no system in the world like it on many levels, and there may never be again. The concept of parelleling thousands of LV transformers on their secondaries is both asinine and brilliant at the same time, as well as consolidating 6+ distinct transmission zones of protection into one for space savings but off set by replication of them. A failure of any bus or breaker results in no outages through alternation of supply and load. Self healing transmission cables and a protection system that must take into account phase angle regulators and series reactors, many of which are switched seasonally. Fault current is another story, but I will say that a genius of computational engineering and operational excellence has achieved that their 345 and 138kv faciltiies do not exceed 63,000 amps fault current.

Personally I think the Company should be nominated for a Nobel prize.

Yea but did you work on it?

 

[augie47]

You guys make my career seem so insignificant

 

[Besoeker3]

Most Historic/Unique/Messed-Up/Butchered

The Detroit-Windsor Tunnel - (On the U.S.A side) This was originally a 4.6-kV, ungrounded, two-source primary, breaker-and-a-half?, three-bus, secondary selective system, which was also fed by two additional incoming alternate source feeders supplied by the Canadian (Windsor) side routed under the Detroit River (via an international highway tunnel). On the Canadian side, an identical power system existed - also with two alternate source feeders fed from the Detroit, MI side, except that on the Canadian side, the primary system was originally 4-kV, ungrounded (very strange). The total number of sources is four, with two serving utilities involved, one located in Detroit, MI and the other located in Windsor, Ontario, but cross-tied for redundancy by four feeders - two incoming and two outgoing. To add another layer, the secondary distribution system also utilized an auxiliary bus which fed six singe-ended, primary-selective unit-substations.

In the beginning, the switchgear was all open, exposed live-front equipment with knife switches...
View attachment 2557484

Throughout the years, people have came and gone, upgraded/replaced equipment, retrofitted devices, etc. so now its a beat-up 4.8-kV, low-resistance grounded converted, two-source primary, two-bus, secondary selective system (on both Detroit and Windsor sides). The secondary distribution system now has double-ended secondary-selective unit-substations. My involvement at this site was to provide support to the field-services team, who failed miserably to integrate new protective relays and translate settings as part of a service contract. In the process of executing our main scope of work, I began to notice odd things, and started to look beyond our portion of the work. I discovered how messed-up and mis-applied the culmination of all the "so-called" upgrades over the years were. I saw remnants of the ungrounded system, inadequate ground-fault detection, misapplied devices and protection settings, emergency source deficiencies, hacked-together automatic throw-over logic, overall lack of documentation, etc...

Did YOU work on it?

 

[xptpcrewx]

Did YOU work on it?

Of course I did can you read?

My involvement at this site was to provide support to the field-services team, who failed miserably to integrate new protective relays and translate settings as part of a service contract. In the process of executing our main scope of work, I began to notice odd things, and started to look beyond our portion of the work. I discovered how messed-up and mis-applied the culmination of all the "so-called" upgrades over the years were. I saw remnants of the ungrounded system, inadequate ground-fault detection, misapplied devices and protection settings, emergency source deficiencies, hacked-together automatic throw-over logic, overall lack of documentation, etc...

I basically had to reverse-engineer the intent, what others had done, not decided to do, should have done, etc. just to get our portion of the work complete. I personally designed our portion of the integration and produced documentation which was originally missing/inaccurate/incomplete/obsolete. I also physically wired the cubicles, tested the relays, simulated transfers, and commissioned the system. I got more work from change orders to fix other things in the process.

 

[Besoeker3]

Of course I did can you read?

Not the kit you showed on that picture.
The stuff did was exactly what I designed, manufactured and installed.

 

[Besoeker3]

You guys make my career seem so insignificant

Very much luck just the places I went to. But it is basically the same kit wherever it ended up.

 

[xptpcrewx]

Not the kit you showed on that picture.

I presented the history and image of this system to explain how an awesome complex system could get so messed up over the years. Of course I didn't work on the live-front version of that equipment because that was over 100 years before my time. However, I did worked on what was left of this system, in that same room, under the same application where the newer switchgear sits.

The stuff did was exactly what I designed, manufactured and installed.

So what? No-one is discounting that. I am a licensed PE, Master Electrician and Electrical Contractor. Not sure who you are... I'm certainly not the best, but I'll put my credentials against yours any day.

I'll bet you're still angry about this though: https://forums.mikeholt.com/threads/power-triangle-challenge.2562710/

 

[augie47]

Besoeker watching us discuss ground rod locations (joke)

 

[augie47]

Not only is then "live front" fascinating, the "operator" wearing a suit & tie is so "telling".

 

[xptpcrewx]

Not only is then "live front" fascinating, the "operator" wearing a suit & tie is so "telling".

Back in those days, there was less of a distinction between operator, technician, engineer, electrician. Everyone did everything. In this picture, I believe all three operators are attempting to perform some sort of manually coordinated bus transfer (each manned on one bus).

 

[Besoeker3]

So what? No-one is discounting that. I am a licensed PE, Master Electrician and Electrical Contractor. Not sure who you are... I'm certainly not the best, but I'll put my credentials against yours any day.

Go for it.

 

[Besoeker3]

Besoeker watching us discuss ground rod locations (joke)

And the deputy:
Yeoman Usher of the Black Rod

That's Britain for you.........!
There's a comedy show called Little Britain.

 

[xptpcrewx]

Go for it.

1. Let's start with basics... your bad logic and incredibly low standard of proof for deriving the power triangle. This thread has seriously got me wondering if you understand math: https://forums.mikeholt.com/threads/power-triangle-challenge.2562710/

2. Then we can move on to how exactly you personally "designed" and "manufactured" 13.6kV 30MW turbines. I call B.S.

13.6kV 30MW turbines.

The stuff did was exactly what I designed, manufactured and installed.

3. Once you get past that, and if they are willing to participate, we can submit our credentials to a moderator to independently verify them and report back to this thread. If you are not willing to do that, then I suggest forever holding your peace. This isn't a pissing contest.

 

[Besoeker3]

2. Then we can move on to how exactly you personally "designed" and "manufactured" 13.6kV 30MW turbines. I call B.S.

Then you are just plain wrong.
And I'm quite happy to show my credentials.
Degree. Chartered Engineer. MSC. Various occupational safety and heath certificates.