Ilsco IPC Taps

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BradPV

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Residential PV Qualifier
I have an inspector that is not passing installations that are using the IPC's and is telling us he is waiting on updated safety instructions from the manufacturer. I have not found any information that there is an issue or any new instructions forthcoming. Has anyone else gotten this message or heard of an issue with these connectors?
 
BradPV said:
I have an inspector that is not passing installations that are using the IPC's and is telling us he is waiting on updated safety instructions from the manufacturer. I have not found any information that there is an issue or any new instructions forthcoming. Has anyone else gotten this message or heard of an issue with these connectors?
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Some AHJs I deal with (one in particular) will not allow IPC's. There is no code against it but you have to decide if it is a fight worth having and if you are likely to win it. In the one in particular (we fought it and lost) we have to install a tap box with Polaris blocks to build a supply side interconnection.
 
ggunn said:
(we fought it and lost)
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Just curious, did they have a prima facie rebuttal to "IPCs are connectors listed to all the standards that the NEC requires for connections of service conductors" (I'm assuming that's true)? Or did they just say "no" without reason? Or have a local amendment?

Cheers, Wayne
 
wwhitney said:
Just curious, did they have a prima facie rebuttal to "IPCs are connectors listed to all the standards that the NEC requires for connections of service conductors" (I'm assuming that's true)? Or did they just say "no" without reason? Or have a local amendment?

Cheers, Wayne
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They just said no. They would not argue the point and they ignored all the information we tried to give them that showed IPCs to be code compliant. It's not the only issue we have had with them; their chief inspector is the final word and the rest of the PV department toes the line. Welcome to Texas. ;^)
 
I did hear back unofficially from an Ilsco rep that they did issue a standdown for IPC's on solar installations but no one can produce said document. I did receive a draft version of a letter stating that they are safe to use on solar installs as long as the instructions are followed. Apparently they were being installed in curved sections of conductor and not being torqued correctly therefore causing fires. Ilsco is going to change the packaging so that each IPC is individually bagged with the instruction sheet so that it is on hand for the installers. It would have been nice to know they were telling AHJ's that there was a hold so we weren't holding up projects trying to work through this.....This could potentially help @ggunn out.
 
So basically their product started getting used a lot more because of solar installations, which caused inadequacies of the instructions/product to come to light. From a technical standpoint, it has nothing to do with solar.
 
I've used them plenty of times. One that comes to mind is a kitchen in a grocery store that had its own panel with a shunt-trip main breaker in it.

I used the Ilsco taps to supply a new 60a MB panel to supply the new fire-suppression system. Nothing in the old system required always-on power.
 
jaggedben said:
So basically their product started getting used a lot more because of solar installations, which caused inadequacies of the instructions/product to come to light. From a technical standpoint, it has nothing to do with solar.
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In essence their product is being used a lot more due to solar but being installed by unqualified people. One thing I focus on greatly is training with install teams to make sure they understand the basics. Believe it or not there are a lot of folks installing who have never held a torque tool (screwdriver, wrench, etc.) I'm not saying I always use one but I also know what the torque should feel like on my wrist.
 
BradPV said:
... Believe it or not there are a lot of folks installing who have never held a torque tool (screwdriver, wrench, etc.)....
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Oh, I certainly believe it. Believe it or not I also think that's true of a large percentage of ECs and their workers in my area who are doing 'regular' electrical work that doesn't involve solar. It's a little difficult to blame either the product or the workers if you don't know the makeup of the control sample. ;)

I can see why an AHJ would want to ban IPCs, as I find them a somewhat sketchy idea myself. But AHJs should stand behind written rules.
 
BradPV said:
It would have been nice to know they were telling AHJ's that there was a hold so we weren't holding up projects trying to work through this.....This could potentially help @ggunn out.
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That's not likely with the AHJ I was referring to.
 
BradPV said:
but I also know what the torque should feel like on my wrist.
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I remember years ago at a conference a vendor set up a "test your calibrated wrist" demo for people to torque terminals by hand and then the actual torque was shown. What they demonstrated was that the calibrated wrist is a myth. Many people were surprised.
 
I agree the wrist torque control method is not likely to be accurate but I'm talking about folks who wouldn't know how to dial in a torque wrench.....I reviewed our projects involving IPC's and the one thing I was able to determine was that no one had ever read the instructions. Though I have found this to be true with most products that look to be simple to install and even complicated for that matter.
 
BradPV said:
I agree the wrist torque control method is not likely to be accurate but I'm talking about folks who wouldn't know how to dial in a torque wrench.....I reviewed our projects involving IPC's and the one thing I was able to determine was that no one had ever read the instructions. Though I have found this to be true with most products that look to be simple to install and even complicated for that matter.
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Many readings of manuals are triggered by unfortunate experiences, and are done too late. :^)
 
ggunn said:
Many readings of manuals are triggered by unfortunate experiences, and are done too late. :^)
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Agreed! I had a commissioning who would give me the "look" anytime we were working with a new product, I found this "look" was asking me the question of; did you read the directions? If nothing else I did learn that from him...
 
pv_n00b said:
I remember years ago at a conference a vendor set up a "test your calibrated wrist" demo for people to torque terminals by hand and then the actual torque was shown. What they demonstrated was that the calibrated wrist is a myth. Many people were surprised.
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I would think if there is a possibility of a calibrated wrist, it would be with a specific tool the person is accustomed to and at a specific torque value. I don't see much of chance of even that being very accurate but maybe has the best chance if same tool and same torque value are the common variables.
 
One thing to keep in mind when using insulation piercing connectors, is that they are only listed to be used on insulated wires. One situation to consider, is insulated ungrounded service conductors, with a bare neutral service conductor. The neutral has a double standard on whether it can be bare or not, depending on the side of the service disconnect. Perhaps an SEU or SER cable is used for the service conductors, which has a bare neutral.

It would be OK to use the IPC on the two line conductors, but you'd need a different kind of connector for terminating your neutral to the bare neutral of the service conductors.
 
Carultch said:
One thing to keep in mind when using insulation piercing connectors, is that they are only listed to be used on insulated wires. One situation to consider, is insulated ungrounded service conductors, with a bare neutral service conductor. The neutral has a double standard on whether it can be bare or not, depending on the side of the service disconnect. Perhaps an SEU or SER cable is used for the service conductors, which has a bare neutral.

It would be OK to use the IPC on the two line conductors, but you'd need a different kind of connector for terminating your neutral to the bare neutral of the service conductors.
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Not familiar with these connectors, do they by chance make any that are IPC on one port but not the other?

Otherwise isn't a main concept of using them is to lessen potential contact with live conductors, which means it wouldn't be a big deal to strip a grounded conductor to terminate it?
 
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