Wiring in a new home

[jeff48356]

There are a bunch of new houses being built in my neighborhood, and I was looking around at the rough electrical work that had been done on one of them. I noticed a few things that seemed off. The first was the outdoor outlets. Rather than providing a separate 20A circuit for them, they simply tapped them into one of the general-purpose 15A circuits. Another thing was the bedrooms. They wired the master bedroom for a ceiling fan (metal fan-rated box, 14/3 wire, 2-gang switch box), but they failed to do that for the other bedrooms; they simply installed a blue plastic fixture box, 14/2, and single switch box. I also saw a bunch of other fixture boxes throughout the house where recessed lights would have been more appropriate. The wiring job seems very cheaply performed, and it is disgusting in my opinion.

 

[goldstar]

From my experience, when you work for a track builder - "Cheap & Dirty" is the way to go. You're getting the same $$$ for every house unless the future HO is willing to pay for extras (i.e the fan box). So, as many (legitimate) shortcuts you can take is the name of the game. You can't go by YOUR GUT FEELINGS by suggesting that recessed lights would be appropriate. As long as you can operate a switch and turn on a light when you enter a room you are Code compliant. I believe you can also still switch a receptacle for a floor or table lamp (talking about the cheap way top go). Someone has to pay for extras (unless you feel philanthropic at the moment).

 

[augie47]

From the sound of things it likely meets (and even exceeds) NEC requirements.
Bottom line, you get what you pay for.

 

[jim dungar]

From the sound of things it likely meets (and even exceeds) NEC requirements.
Bottom line, you get what you pay for.

In this case it appears they did not get what they did not pay for.

 

[rc/retired]

Cheap, yes. Code violation, no.

Ron

 

[4-20mA]

Next thing you know they won't require 20amp outlets in the bathroom or kitchen either...

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[acrwc10]

From the sound of things it likely meets (and even exceeds) NEC requirements.
Bottom line, you get what you pay for.

"Code Minimum" is like getting a D- on a test, you pass but it is nothing to brag about.

 

[jeff48356]

In this case it appears they did not get what they did not pay for.

I would be livid if I paid half a million dollars for a house and got a cheap-n-dirty electric system. I would demand the wiring be done a certain way. Of course, since I'm an electrician, I would wire the house myself rather than their contractor, but I guess I'm speaking on behalf of the majority who don't have such skills.

But I always thought that the Code required outdoor outlets to be on a separate circuit from the GP lighting circuits.

 

[readydave8]

But I always thought that the Code required outdoor outlets to be on a separate circuit from the GP lighting circuits.

I don't remember that in NEC, could it have been local code?

 

[don_resqcapt19]

.... They wired the master bedroom for a ceiling fan (metal fan-rated box, 14/3 wire, 2-gang switch box), but they failed to do that for the other bedrooms; they simply installed a blue plastic fixture box, 14/2, and single switch box. ...

What edition of the code applies to the installation? A change in 314.27(C) for the 2020 code says:

314.27(C) ...
Outlet boxes mounted in the ceilings of habitable rooms of dwelling occupancies in a location acceptable for the installation of a ceiling-suspended (paddle) fan shall comply with one of the following:

• (1)Listed for the sole support of ceiling-suspended (paddle) fans
• (2)An outlet box complying with the applicable requirements of 314.27 and providing access to structural framing capable of supporting of a ceiling-suspended (paddle) fan bracket or equivalent

 

[augie47]

If you look at the same job through the eyes of a knowledgeable plumber, carpenter, etc. you will likely see all is "minimum" although it does seem electrical is most often bare bones.

 

[4x4dually]

I would be livid if I paid half a million dollars for a house and got a cheap-n-dirty electric system. I would demand the wiring be done a certain way. Of course, since I'm an electrician, I would wire the house myself rather than their contractor, but I guess I'm speaking on behalf of the majority who don't have such skills.

But I always thought that the Code required outdoor outlets to be on a separate circuit from the GP lighting circuits.

The issue here is, the majority you are trying to speak for that do not posses the skills or knowledge to wire their own house also do not posses the skills or knowledge to walk around a rough-in and notice the things mentioned here. The GC and subs know it too. You can't inspect quality into workmanship....it has to be built in from the start.

 

[tallgirl]

Usually the tract home builder has a list of upgrades, which can include assorted extra receptacles, pre-wiring for fans, etc. These are priced crazy-high because someone has to … spend 5 minutes with AutoCAD drawing extra lines. If the person buying the house didn’t want to spend the extra $500 to have a two-gang plastic box and 14/3 run to the ceiling for a future fan, that’s on them.

Obligatory Story: My last house came with a fireplace. They charged me $500 to delete it. And then another $500 to put another receptacle on that wall so I didn’t have to have a power strip for my entertainment center. When they brought in the pre-fabricated trusses they had cut-outs where the chimney and whatnot were supposed to be on a house with a fireplace. The framers then had to scab in the missing lumber. That explains the $500 for that change. There were also flood lights on all four corners, with three-way switches — the front floods were by the front door, the back floods by the back door, and both were in my bedroom so I could light up the entire yard with the flip of a switch. I paid an extra $500 for each of those. One of the corners wasn’t wired at all because no one does that. So, at one of the wall-thrus I pointed out that there was a missing everything. That explains the $500 per floodlight upgrade.

No one buys the expensive upgrades because they are stupid expensive, so all the houses in a tract development suck. Except mine.

 

[tallgirl]

The issue here is, the majority you are trying to speak for that do not posses the skills or knowledge to wire their own house also do not posses the skills or knowledge to walk around a rough-in and notice the things mentioned here. The GC and subs know it too. You can't inspect quality into workmanship....it has to be built in from the start.

GCs are trying to hit a price point. For tract development, it’s a lot lower than full-custom, which is what my parents did.

Making sure everything is laid out nicely for a house someone drew on a piece of paper is a skill. When I would rough a house I’d try to figure out where the furniture went, then put boxes where it wasn’t. It usually just takes one extra receptacle to move everything out from behind sofas and beds. Wire, box, receptacle for all the rooms in a house, times all the houses in a project adds up, and developers won’t go for that because their competitors won’t.

Dad had a template with “furniture” on it and he’d sit down with the buyer and draw things. When both my parents were building houses full-time-ish, Mom would do a wall-thru with She Who Must Be Obeyed and make sure she liked where things were going to be, then they‘d get their EC in to do it.

 

[jeff48356]

What edition of the code applies to the installation? A change in 314.27(C) for the 2020 code says:

2015 Michigan Residential Code (based on 2014 NEC)

 

[jeff48356]

GCs are trying to hit a price point. For tract development, it’s a lot lower than full-custom, which is what my parents did.

Making sure everything is laid out nicely for a house someone drew on a piece of paper is a skill. When I would rough a house I’d try to figure out where the furniture went, then put boxes where it wasn’t. It usually just takes one extra receptacle to move everything out from behind sofas and beds. Wire, box, receptacle for all the rooms in a house, times all the houses in a project adds up, and developers won’t go for that because their competitors won’t.

These are all the upgrades that I automatically install as standard with every house I wire. Had I been contracted to wire one of those houses while the other electric company did all the rest, the one I wired would have all the stuff I mentioned. I put myself in the shoes of the people who will ultimately purchase the house when designing an electrical system.

On a side note, I despise fixtures! I will always use recessed lighting everywhere possible, unless it's a location where a HO might want to use a fancy fixture, such as a chandelier. After all, there is not much cost difference between a fixture and a recessed light. A Halo can costs about $8 each, and a LED trim about $7 (based on $28/4-pack). And a lot less work on final trim-out.

 

[tallgirl]

Yup. My parents had an EC who was probably a lot like you.

 

[hbiss]

I believe you can also still switch a receptacle for a floor or table lamp (talking about the cheap way top go)

I actually like to do that. Nobody wants fans in the 1 million plus homes around here, looks ghetto and like you don't have A/C. Same with "boob" lights in the middle of the BR ceilings. If you are going to install lighting, do it up with recessed. Else, tastefully decorate with lamps.

-Hal

 

[brantmacga]

One of the large national homebuilders has come to my town. One of their PM’s dropped some plans at my office asking if we would give them a price. It is absolutely code-minimum, one fixture in every room, no ceiling fans provisions except for master and living rm, and the bathrooms get one light in the ceiling. No vanity lights. They also don’t allow pre-sold homes to have any options added by the buyer.

I passed, but a couple of friends are going to work for them. Another EC friend told me today that the local homebuilders association has said they will fire any sub working for the national homebuilder. That’s funny, because they’ll be buying all of their lumber and concrete locally from the same suppliers.

They plan to build 1000 houses per year for the next 5 years and all of our local builders combined probably don’t build that many.


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[jeff48356]

One of the large national homebuilders has come to my town. One of their PM’s dropped some plans at my office asking if we would give them a price. It is absolutely code-minimum, one fixture in every room, no ceiling fans provisions except for master and living rm, and the bathrooms get one light in the ceiling. No vanity lights. They also don’t allow pre-sold homes to have any options added by the buyer.

I would give a quote as if all the electrical upgrades were on the plans. Then if accepted, go ahead and install all the upgrades right along with all the rest of the stuff that's required by Code!