Hello all. New user to the forum here. Been electrician for 25 years and last 10 a contractor. I have a question regarding UL listing on not matching breaker type to sub panel type used. I recently was called out to repair a HO accident in a brand new home. He was mounting a mirror and drilled a wire causing arc fault trip in garage sub panel. Upon arriving, found sub panel to be homeline but every breaker in it was Eaton. I informed him this would void his UL listing in his panel and potentially be an issue if he ever had to claim home insurance. Since the builder was still constructing homes in the area he came over and I showed him the issue. He told me I’m wrong but I feel if he has his EC doing this in all homes in the area, there could troubles ahead if any owner has electrical issues and needs to claim insurance. As a side note, this home passed new construction inspection and sticker was posted on panel door. Thanks in advance for comments.
Voided UL listing
- Thread starter Crash117
- Start date
- Status
LarryFine
Master Electrician Electric Contractor Richmond VA
- Location
- Henrico County, VA
- Occupation
- Electrical Contractor
Welcome to the forum.
You are correct, and there is no excuse for such an error.
The electrical should enforce the correction.
You are correct, and there is no excuse for such an error.
The electrical should enforce the correction.
- Location
- Illinois
- Occupation
- retired electrician
This may not be an issue. Eaton makes "classified" breakers for a number other brands and those breakers are not a listing violation when used in any panel that they have been classified for use in.
Eaton Classified breakers
Eaton Classified breakers
Aren’t those quite a bit more expensive than non-classified? I wouldn’t expect to see a panel full of them unless there was no other option. Especially in new construction.
- Location
- Illinois
- Occupation
- retired electrician
No idea of the costs, but high costs does not equal a code violation.
As of course this is new construction, nearly all breakers in this panel are combo arc/gfi breakers except for a couple double pole breakers. I’m not familiar with classified breakers for multi use. I’ll have to see if customer will allow a return visit for a follow up inspection. If they say yes, I’ll prepare documentation from both Square D and Eaton about panel and breakers in question.
brantmacga
Señor Member
- Location
- Georgia
- Occupation
- Former Child
I’ve bought them before, the price was competitive with any other brand. The price recently has been inflated.
I know all the residential guys here have been using whatever they could get their hands on the last year or so. I’ve seen a lot of mis-matched load centers and breakers going out the door of the supply houses. I have to assume inspectors are just letting it go now.
I’ve been buying a lot of breakers online lately because the brokers are hoarding them and charging astronomical prices. I needed several BR220 & BR230 GFI’s last year, and paid $300/ea.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
- Location
- Illinois
- Occupation
- retired electrician
Not sure that they are for multi use...they are classified and tested to be used in specific panels just like the OEM breakers are. A breaker classified for use in a SquareD panel cannot be used in a GE panel.
letgomywago
Senior Member
- Location
- Washington state and Oregon coast
- Occupation
- residential electrician
The eaton BR style classified hit any BR style you can think of they have a chart with what busings they are listed for. There are qo style ones and bolt on classified ones that are more specific. I've had to use the classified afci before to get a microwave to hold on a new house last year and it was classified for multiple brands panels.
- Location
- San Francisco Bay Area, CA, USA
- Occupation
- Electrical Engineer
Well, actually that depends.
This is the issue. Eaton has "Classified" breakers for use in SPECIFIC panels from competitors or brands that Eaton has taken over through the years, as listed in the documentation that comes with the breakers. But if you have the Classified that they have for many of the different brands, AND your panel is on the list, then the same breaker, called a "CL" Series, is used for these multiple brands of panels; i.e. Siemens, Crouse Hinds, Murray, T&B, GE, Bryant, AND Square D Homeline. The CL breakers are all the same, then they have a DIFFERENT Classified breaker for Square D QO panels.
Here is the list of panels that can the Eaton CL breakers can be used with;
It should be noted that although the BR Series breakers WILL also fit in the same panels, they are NOT listed for use that way. BR breakers can only be used in Bryant panels.
Now, ALTERNATELY, a Square D Homeline panel is NOT listed for use with anything except Square D Homeline breakers, and the Classified breakers are technically sold as "REPLACEMENTS" to the original. So when the panel is initially installed, at least ONE of the breakers must be actual Homeline to avoid negating the UL listing of the panel. Usually if there is a Main breaker, that qualifies.
The only mfr that offers Classified breakers is Siemens, who has a Classified breaker for Square D QO panels only
BR is listed for Challenger also, Eaton CL is the classified line.
I understand that.
My point is that it’s unlikely those breakers are classified for the panel. If the same contractor is building a bunch of houses in that area, it sounds like tract homes, and they won’t spend an extra dime if they can help it.
- Location
- Placerville, CA, USA
- Occupation
- Retired PV System Designer
This whole issue gets interesting in the following way:
UL lists specific Classified breakers which are UL tested and approved for use in other manufacturers' panels.
But the documentation for those target panels does not usually approve or even mention the use of another manufacturer's Classified breakers in those panels.
Does the UL approval of use of Classfied breaker, A, is panel B constitute an ammendment to the original UL listing of panel B, which did not include testing with A breakers?
UL lists specific Classified breakers which are UL tested and approved for use in other manufacturers' panels.
But the documentation for those target panels does not usually approve or even mention the use of another manufacturer's Classified breakers in those panels.
Does the UL approval of use of Classfied breaker, A, is panel B constitute an ammendment to the original UL listing of panel B, which did not include testing with A breakers?
electrofelon
Senior Member
- Location
- Cherry Valley NY, Seattle, WA
I always like to point out, that there is no such thing as "voiding a listing", and an inspector cannot write up a violation for doing such The relevant NEC code sections that may apply to such situations are 110.2 and 110.3
Rick 0920
Senior Member
- Location
- Jacksonville, FL
- Occupation
- Electrical Instructor
I don't understand why with today's technology that breakers can't be made to be non-interchangeable if they are not listed to be installed in other panels. This has always blown my mind. "Well the breaker fits perfectly in the panel?" "I know it does, but it could create a safety hazard if we put it in there." Brilliance at work!
- Status