PVC on the side of a sidewalk

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Kevin Monroe

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Miami
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Inspector
I had an inspection today, the EC ran schedule 80 PVC on the side of a sidewalk in the customer's backyard. My thought process was, if this was mounted to the concrete wall of the house, I would pass it, but I'm saying its below grade so it should have at least 2 inches concrete, because its south Florida and I get arguments that the rock is too hard to dig. I thought about this most of the day and asked a couple of people for their opinions. I eventually failed using table 300.5, but I know the EC is an arguer. Any opinions would be greatly appreciated.
 
If it was rigid would you have given him a hard time?

This is for a rhetorical question to establish if you think a true hazard is developed by using this method. Idk if it is actually impossible to get underground or not but I have had to do schedule 80 on the side of concrete walkway to protect a GEC.
 
Kevin Monroe said:
I had an inspection today, the EC ran schedule 80 PVC on the side of a sidewalk in the customer's backyard. My thought process was, if this was mounted to the concrete wall of the house, I would pass it, but I'm saying its below grade so it should have at least 2 inches concrete, because its south Florida and I get arguments that the rock is too hard to dig. I thought about this most of the day and asked a couple of people for their opinions. I eventually failed using table 300.5, but I know the EC is an arguer. Any opinions would be greatly appreciated.
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I don't know if you could use 300.5 unless it was under/below grade. Meaning did the EC dig down beside the sidewalk to get below grade?
I will say it would be subject to damage, especially from lawn mowers and weed whackers. If I had no choice but to mount the raceway on the sidewalk, I would have used RMC.
 
Even though it’s schedule 80, RMC would have been a better choice, but then again, with corrosive fertilizers used on the lawn, the life of RMC sitting in that would be reduced. A sidewalk edger would probably destroy the pvc quickly after a few passes, so I think you made the right call. Is it gfci protected?
 
The installation is in the Florida Keys, rigid isn't used a lot down here because of the saltwater, and this is for a boat lift, right on the water. The EC did dig down about 4 inches to run the conduit, which is why I used the 300.5 table. My first question to him was what happens when the homeowner hits it with an edger? I know from experience the ground down here can be really hard, but he didn't even try to dig. I'll see if I can figure out how to post a picture of it later. Thank you guys for your input.
 
You are correct in failing the job. Why does he think he can get by with 4" trench when it should be 18" to the pipe. If he didn't want to dig then he should have used rigid or pvc coated rigid.

I though Florida was all sandy
 
Kevin Monroe said:
I had an inspection today, the EC ran schedule 80 PVC on the side of a sidewalk in the customer's backyard. My thought process was, if this was mounted to the concrete wall of the house, I would pass it, but I'm saying its below grade so it should have at least 2 inches concrete, because its south Florida and I get arguments that the rock is too hard to dig. I thought about this most of the day and asked a couple of people for their opinions. I eventually failed using table 300.5, but I know the EC is an arguer. Any opinions would be greatly appreciated.
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I have read other comments. I disagree that it is fundamentally not legal. If it is properly supported and run above ground, the only code that I feel is applicable, would be "subject to damage". I would feel I didn't have the ability to argue with you, if you used that reason, but a sidewalk is not subject heavy vehicle traffic and a wheel chair or a bicycle won't damage it. If they can use schedule 80 at a power pole on the edge of a sidewalk to protect medium voltage cable (which is done all over the US) then it can be used at the edge of a sidewalk. I WOULD want to see it secured with some sort of posts or spikes driven in the ground though, and spaced above the earth.
 
Strathead said:
I have read other comments. I disagree that it is fundamentally not legal. If it is properly supported and run above ground, the only code that I feel is applicable, would be "subject to damage". I would feel I didn't have the ability to argue with you, if you used that reason, but a sidewalk is not subject heavy vehicle traffic and a wheel chair or a bicycle won't damage it. If they can use schedule 80 at a power pole on the edge of a sidewalk to protect medium voltage cable (which is done all over the US) then it can be used at the edge of a sidewalk. I WOULD want to see it secured with some sort of posts or spikes driven in the ground though, and spaced above the earth.
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But the op says it’s buried, not exposed. If exposed and strapped to the side of the sidewalk, you would be correct, but it is not. Concrete cover is the only option if rock is encountered.
 
Below grade to me means they used a shovel to move dirt, sand or rocks. Not grass.
Support to the edge of the sidewalk would be Ok. Throw some cover on it, and you're SOL.

We buried a feeder & pulled wire. Came back a couple days later and the owners had moved dirt. Just in case you're there working on it, there is an LB on the corner of that building.
 
ptonsparky said:
Below grade to me means they used a shovel to move dirt, sand or rocks. Not grass.
Support to the edge of the sidewalk would be Ok. Throw some cover on it, and you're SOL.

We buried a feeder & pulled wire. Came back a couple days later and the owners had moved dirt. Just in case you're there working on it, there is an LB on the corner of that building.
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In the sandy soil areas around here sometimes a couple days later the wind has moved dirt and buried things that weren't intended to be buried;)
 
Kevin Monroe said:
I had an inspection today, the EC ran schedule 80 PVC on the side of a sidewalk in the customer's backyard. My thought process was, if this was mounted to the concrete wall of the house, I would pass it, but I'm saying its below grade so it should have at least 2 inches concrete, because its south Florida and I get arguments that the rock is too hard to dig. I thought about this most of the day and asked a couple of people for their opinions. I eventually failed using table 300.5, but I know the EC is an arguer. Any opinions would be greatly appreciated.
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I agree with you and if he argues he should show you what section makes his argument legit.

As far as the rock being to hard, he needs the right tools.
 
hillbilly1 said:
But the op says it’s buried, not exposed. If exposed and strapped to the side of the sidewalk, you would be correct, but it is not. Concrete cover is the only option if rock is encountered.
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But the OP didn't say it was buried. He said, "I am saying it is below grade." That sounds ambiguous to me. I interpret that he may be saying that the conduit is exposed but he "feels" it is below grade. If it IS below grade then IMO he wouldn't be asking this question here. If the contractor took mini's and secured the conduit right to the side of the sidewalk where the top edge of the conduit was even with the top of the sidewalk, then it certainly wouldn't be below grade. If the plans showed a sidewalk with the top surface 3" above grade, then it also wouldn't be below grade. So unless we know WHY the OP said he is saying it is below grade, then we can't state, unequivocally that it isn't legal as long as it is properly supported and secured.
 
Strathead said:
But the OP didn't say it was buried. He said, "I am saying it is below grade." That sounds ambiguous to me. I interpret that he may be saying that the conduit is exposed but he "feels" it is below grade. If it IS below grade then IMO he wouldn't be asking this question here. If the contractor took mini's and secured the conduit right to the side of the sidewalk where the top edge of the conduit was even with the top of the sidewalk, then it certainly wouldn't be below grade. If the plans showed a sidewalk with the top surface 3" above grade, then it also wouldn't be below grade. So unless we know WHY the OP said he is saying it is below grade, then we can't state, unequivocally that it isn't legal as long as it is properly supported and secured.
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. The EC did dig down about 4 inches to run the conduit, post#5
 
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