Photo cell w/o contactor

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Isaiah

Senior Member
Location
Baton Rouge
Occupation
Electrical Inspector
The E and C firm has designed a single photocell to drive 20 LEDs at 277V. There is no contactor involved just a simple photocell with open/close contacts to energize all 20 outdoor lights. Distance to the last fixture is about 400feet. Doesn’t seem like this will work


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hillbilly1

Senior Member
Location
North Georgia mountains
Occupation
Owner/electrical contractor
The E and C firm has designed a single photocell to drive 20 LEDs at 277V. There is no contactor involved just a simple photocell with open/close contacts to energize all 20 outdoor lights. Distance to the last fixture is about 400feet. Doesn’t seem like this will work


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What is the total load of the fixtures? What is the rating of the photocell? Distance would make no difference between a photocell or a contactor, just voltage drop.
 

Isaiah

Senior Member
Location
Baton Rouge
Occupation
Electrical Inspector
What is the total load of the fixtures? What is the rating of the photocell? Distance would make no difference between a photocell or a contactor, just voltage drop.

The photocell is rated 20A. The total load is approximately 25A. Conductors are #12Awg


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Strathead

Senior Member
Location
Ocala, Florida, USA
Occupation
Electrician/Estimator/Project Manager/Superintendent
The photocell is rated 20A. The total load is approximately 25A. Conductors are #12Awg


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FYI, I doubt the photocell is rated for 20A of LED load. It needs to be rated for LED drivers, and you will find that the total wattage will be significantly less than the tungsten rating. Here is a quick read about it. One thing I noticed that the article left out is that most newer Fluorescent ballasts fall in tot he same category as LED. They are electronic, not magnetic and fall under the same issue as LED.https://www.prolampsales.com/blogs/...hotocontrols-are-compatible-with-led-lighting
 

electroman00

Member
Location
Orlando FL
The E and C firm has designed a single photocell to drive 20 LEDs at 277V. There is no contactor involved just a simple photocell with open/close contacts to energize all 20 outdoor lights. Distance to the last fixture is about 400feet. Doesn’t seem like this will work


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Why are you debating this here...you should be sending it to "The E and C firm" aka "Request For Clarification" aka RFC and let them fix it...for they are the only ones that can fix it!

If they say it's ok as is...

you have your Certified Mail Receipt RFC if it blows up...

aka CYA !!

If you already installed to the Eng Drawings and they want it changed...it's a change order!

and change orders aren't spelled CHEAP !!

hth
 

Isaiah

Senior Member
Location
Baton Rouge
Occupation
Electrical Inspector
Why are you debating this here...you should be sending it to "The E and C firm" aka "Request For Clarification" aka RFC and let them fix it...for they are the only ones that can fix it!

If they say it's ok as is...

you have your Certified Mail Receipt RFC if it blows up...

aka CYA !!

If you already installed to the Eng Drawings and they want it changed...it's a change order!

and change orders aren't spelled CHEAP !!

hth

“Debate”? That’s what politicians do
This will definitely be a Change Order since it’s already installed!!!


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Jraef

Moderator, OTD
Staff member
Location
San Francisco Bay Area, CA, USA
Occupation
Electrical Engineer
Wait…
25A @ 277V is 6.925 kW, divided by 20 LED fixtures is 346W per fixture. For LEDs, that’s a 50,000 lumen floodlight fixture. Is that what you are dealing with here? Or are they the lumen EQUIVALENT of a 350W incandescent fixture, which in LED world is likely closer to 35W input each?
 

Isaiah

Senior Member
Location
Baton Rouge
Occupation
Electrical Inspector
Wait…
25A @ 277V is 6.925 kW, divided by 20 LED fixtures is 346W per fixture. For LEDs, that’s a 50,000 lumen floodlight fixture. Is that what you are dealing with here? Or are they the lumen EQUIVALENT of a 350W incandescent fixture, which in LED world is likely closer to 35W input each?

Its 20 light poles with a 400W LED flood light for each pole.


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electroman00

Member
Location
Orlando FL
Its 20 light poles with a 400W LED flood light for each pole.


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“Debate”? That’s what politicians do
This will definitely be a Change Order since it’s already installed!!!


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Again I ask...why are you debating here??

If you're a inspector it's not your problemo!

So I'm at a loss as to your wants and needs here!?!?
 

mtnelect

HVAC & Electrical Contractor
Location
Southern California
Occupation
Contractor, C10 & C20 - Semi Retired
The E and C firm has designed a single photocell to drive 20 LEDs at 277V. There is no contactor involved just a simple photocell with open/close contacts to energize all 20 outdoor lights. Distance to the last fixture is about 400feet. Doesn’t seem like this will work


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In street lighting projects they specify a twist lock socket wired for a twist lock photocell on each fixture. When the photocell fails it's easy to find and replace.
 

Isaiah

Senior Member
Location
Baton Rouge
Occupation
Electrical Inspector
In street lighting projects they specify a twist lock socket wired for a twist lock photocell on each fixture. When the photocell fails it's easy to find and replace.

This isn’t for street lighting - it’s inside an industrial plant for area lighting. They don’t have individual floodlights.


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Isaiah

Senior Member
Location
Baton Rouge
Occupation
Electrical Inspector
Again I ask...why are you debating here??

If you're a inspector it's not your problemo!

So I'm at a loss as to your wants and needs here!?!?

Thankfully they have a block function on the Forum. I’ve never noticed that before
Bye.


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topgone

Senior Member
There's your problem.
That's no problem if it were me, though! I'd let the photocell drive contactor/s and then use the contacts to control other lighting units as need be! I mean, you could light up the whole perimeter of a grandstand using one photocell driving lots of contactors, you know?
 

Isaiah

Senior Member
Location
Baton Rouge
Occupation
Electrical Inspector
That's no problem if it were me, though! I'd let the photocell drive contactor/s and then use the contacts to control other lighting units as need be! I mean, you could light up the whole perimeter of a grandstand using one photocell driving lots of contactors, you know?

But there is a limit as to how many contactor coils can be pulled in with one photocell.


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Strathead

Senior Member
Location
Ocala, Florida, USA
Occupation
Electrician/Estimator/Project Manager/Superintendent
Its 20 light poles with a 400W LED flood light for each pole.


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I till question whether they are actually 400 watts, or "400w equivalent". Either way, it is very doubtful that a single photocell can handle the inrush of those fixtures. I am pretty sure a photocell will be required, so the only real question is where does your responsibility lie? For me, you have no actual responsibility. So, it depends on the attitude of the Electrical Engineer, whether I would point it out, and how I would point it out. If I had a good working relationship, I would talk to them directly so they could be the ones to bring it up officially. If I din't care for them and didn't mind antagonizing them, I would write a "hey stupid" RFI. BTW I don't see your posts as debating, just discussing.
 
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