What conduit to use in pole barn

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Stevenfyeager

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Location
United States, Indiana
Occupation
electrical contractor
My customer has a pole barn, used for a business. I have a commercial permit to install a 400 amp service using two meter disconnect combos. One 200 amp panel will go in a bay about 80 feet from it's disconnect. ( up12' then across 40 feet ceiling then down12 feet.) (ceiling is 16' high) I do not do much commercial work. Inspector says I must apply 230.50 protection for this. I'm assuming using 4/0, 4/0, 4/0 Al. Is EMT advisable ? 2" ? Would I use the conduit as the ground ? Thank you.
 
For non dwelling the wire must be rated at 200 amps, 250 MCM Al or 3/0 copper
Typically can use reduced size neutral
 
tom baker said:
For non dwelling the wire must be rated at 200 amps, 250 MCM Al or 3/0 copper
Typically can use reduced size neutral
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I thought 4/0 Al single conductors are acceptable for 200 amps. Even if I use SE cable column, because there is no 180 amp typical size breaker, we are allowed to use 4/0 and use the next size up breaker, 200. ?
 
I would probably use SER cable and just sleeve it where it needs protection. No need in sleeving, or using conduit, at the ceiling.
 
Per 338.10(4)(a) referencing 334 Part II, can SER cable be installed in a "Business structure" other than being behind a 15min rated wall cover ??
 
ptonsparky said:
What is a business structure?
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Obviously no such animal. I used that term based on the OP where he stated it was for "business use" likely taking it out of residential setting.
One would need the actual class of construction to know if NM or SE were allowed without a 15 min rated covering,.
 
augie47 said:
Obviously no such animal. I used that term based on the OP where he stated it was for "business use" likely taking it out of residential setting.
One would need the actual class of construction to know if NM or SE were allowed without a 15 min rated covering,.
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This pole barn will be used to store trucks, building materials, and will have a welder. The bays will be rented out. I’m not sure what to label it. Thanks
 
Take a look at 334.10, which is referenced from 338.10(B)(4)(a). If it's not a 1 or 2 family dwelling (item 1) or a multi-family dwelling (item 2), then it needs a 15 minute thermal barrier (item 3), to be in a cable tray (item 4), or to be in a raceway (item 5). Along with some restrictions on the type of construction.

So as far as using it exposed, it doesn't really matter what you call it, just whether it's a dwelling(s) or not.

Cheers, Wayne
 
Stevenfyeager said:
This pole barn will be used to store trucks, building materials, and will have a welder. The bays will be rented out. I’m not sure what to label it. Thanks
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It sounds kind of like a garage. Will the welder be used on the trucks? Will the trucks be worked on in the bays?
You might need to apply article 511
( I just realized your in Indiana , don't worry about applying Article 511 ;) )
 
Buck Parrish said:
It sounds kind of like a garage. Will the welder be used on the trucks? Will the trucks be worked on in the bays?
You might need to apply article 511
( I just realized your in Indiana , don't worry about applying Article 511 ;) )
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Indiana doesn't have motorized vehicles yet ??? :)
 
augie47 said:
Indiana doesn't have motorized vehicles yet ??? :)
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Ha Ha very funny !
Buck Parrish said:
They are very very very lax in electrical work in most of Indiana. The areas that border KY, Chicago or Michigan get better quality.
I wrote alot more but deleted it because I use my real name. ;)
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Whew ! Luckily, I work in one of those areas you mentioned. Louisville, KY and Southern IN. But you are right, two counties west of here, no electrical permits, plumbing permits, or framing permits issued. Septic permits only. I know a young man who built his new house recently, no inspections. Kind of scary. We had to replace a customer's service panel a couple of years ago, and I called that county office just to make sure I had heard correctly about no permits. Sure enough, no permit or inspection. The POCO makes an evaluation when they show up.
 
Buck Parrish said:
They are very very very lax in electrical work in most of Indiana. The areas that border KY, Chicago or Michigan get better quality.
I wrote alot more but deleted it because I use my real name. ;)
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Evansville is the only place I have had an inspector require purple primer on conduit! He walked every foot of an entire parking lot making sure every joint shown purple.
 
I had an Evansville masters for many years, and only went up there for that one job. The office failed to get a licensed journeyman on the job, so I had to go up and meet with the inspector. Another foreman that did a job up there several years earlier warned me about the inspector wanting purple primer! He had a n Evansville masters too, but was tied up on another job.
 
hillbilly1 said:
I had an Evansville masters for many years, and only went up there for that one job. The office failed to get a licensed journeyman on the job, so I had to go up and meet with the inspector. Another foreman that did a job up there several years earlier warned me about the inspector wanting purple primer! He had a n Evansville masters too, but was tied up on another job.
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So he wanted primer on electrical pvc ?
 
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