Inspector will only acept UL as a testing lab.

captain blue beer

captain blue beer

Member
Location
mississippi gulf coast
Occupation
Electrical Contractor
Hello all, just when you think you've heard it all they come up with another one.
i have an inspector who is refusing to acept ETL as a testing lab. I've sent him the OSHA registry of Listed National Testing Labs with ETL on it.
now he's referring back to art. 100. " Included in a list published by an organization that is acceptable to the authority having jurisdiction" and he's not accepting ETl as a testing lab because they have looked for UL symbol for the last 18 years and not going to change now? this is a 100,000 sq ft assisted living going to cost per fixture went from 5.50 each to 17.95 if i can find them at that. i've done everything i know to do does anyone have any advice. i don't have time to appeal the city council, but there's nothing in the city ordinances that specifies "only UL listed equipment."
 
H

HEYDOG

Senior Member
captain blue beer said:
Hello all, just when you think you've heard it all they come up with another one.
i have an inspector who is refusing to acept ETL as a testing lab. I've sent him the OSHA registry of Listed National Testing Labs with ETL on it.
now he's referring back to art. 100. " Included in a list published by an organization that is acceptable to the authority having jurisdiction" and he's not accepting ETl as a testing lab because they have looked for UL symbol for the last 18 years and not going to change now? this is a 100,000 sq ft assisted living going to cost per fixture went from 5.50 each to 17.95 if i can find them at that. i've done everything i know to do does anyone have any advice. i don't have time to appeal the city council, but there's nothing in the city ordinances that specifies "only UL listed equipment."
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If nothing else, I would contact ETL and have them send you documentation that they are a recognized testing laboratory. I would get in contact with someone there that is involved in the certification process that may have ran into this issue before!
 
gadfly56

gadfly56

Senior Member
Location
New Jersey
Occupation
Professional Engineer, Fire & Life Safety
captain blue beer said:
Hello all, just when you think you've heard it all they come up with another one.
i have an inspector who is refusing to acept ETL as a testing lab. I've sent him the OSHA registry of Listed National Testing Labs with ETL on it.
now he's referring back to art. 100. " Included in a list published by an organization that is acceptable to the authority having jurisdiction" and he's not accepting ETl as a testing lab because they have looked for UL symbol for the last 18 years and not going to change now? this is a 100,000 sq ft assisted living going to cost per fixture went from 5.50 each to 17.95 if i can find them at that. i've done everything i know to do does anyone have any advice. i don't have time to appeal the city council, but there's nothing in the city ordinances that specifies "only UL listed equipment."
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The list has to be published by an organization acceptable to the AHJ. Ask him for the organization, and the list. Watch him squirm.
 
kwired

kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
I think many HVAC units are only listed by ETL, particularly mini splits and other similar units, does this guy reject nearly all of those?
 
kwired

kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
Strathead said:
This... Have you requested a meeting with his boss? The actual AHJ?
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The boss isn't normally the actual AHJ either. The organization they work for is. Any jurisdiction rules normally need to be a consensus of multiple members in some fashion and not just a decision by one member.

Now and then something might come up and on the spot decision possibly gets made, if this were one of those cases then the boss might actually be the one that knows the real answer to the problem though. If he doesn't have an answer, in a well run organization he is probably talking to others before making a decision.

NEC defines NRTL, and that definition includes more than just UL. If an AHJ wants to only accept certain ones, they really should have documentation of that in their rules somewhere.
 
don_resqcapt19

don_resqcapt19

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Illinois
Occupation
retired electrician
kwired said:
The boss isn't normally the actual AHJ either. The organization they work for is. Any jurisdiction rules normally need to be a consensus of multiple members in some fashion and not just a decision by one member.

Now and then something might come up and on the spot decision possibly gets made, if this were one of those cases then the boss might actually be the one that knows the real answer to the problem though. If he doesn't have an answer, in a well run organization he is probably talking to others before making a decision.

NEC defines NRTL, and that definition includes more than just UL. If an AHJ wants to only accept certain ones, they really should have documentation of that in their rules somewhere.
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I have said that many times, but taking a new look at the Article 100 definition, I am not sure.
Authority Having Jurisdiction (AHJ).
An organization, office, or individual responsible for enforcing the requirements of a code or standard, or for approving equipment, materials, an installation, or a procedure. (CMP-1)
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I thought it had something to do with the adoption of and amending a code, but the definition doesn't say that.
Maybe the code needs different definitions...one of the "adopting authority" and one for the inspecting authority and/or inspector.
[/QUOTE]
 
LarryFine

LarryFine

Master Electrician Electric Contractor Richmond VA
Location
Henrico County, VA
Occupation
Electrical Contractor
Authority Having Jurisdiction (AHJ).
An organization, office, or individual responsible for enforcing the requirements of a code or standard, or for approving equipment, materials, an installation, or a procedure. (CMP-1)
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In my opinion, it's stated that way to cover the possibilities. It does not give the NEC the ability to empower an individual inspector with greater authority than his jurisdiction does.
 
don_resqcapt19

don_resqcapt19

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Illinois
Occupation
retired electrician
LarryFine said:
In my opinion, it's stated that way to cover the possibilities. It does not give the NEC the ability to empower an individual inspector with greater authority than his jurisdiction does.
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But there is nothing about the legal authority to adopt and amend. It is my opinion that is the only function of an AHJ.
 
captain blue beer

captain blue beer

Member
Location
mississippi gulf coast
Occupation
Electrical Contractor
kwired said:
The boss isn't normally the actual AHJ either. The organization they work for is. Any jurisdiction rules normally need to be a consensus of multiple members in some fashion and not just a decision by one member.

Now and then something might come up and on the spot decision possibly gets made, if this were one of those cases then the boss might actually be the one that knows the real answer to the problem though. If he doesn't have an answer, in a well run organization he is probably talking to others before making a decision.

NEC defines NRTL, and that definition includes more than just UL. If an AHJ wants to only accept certain ones, they really should have documentation of that in their rules somewhere.
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exactly and I've read the city of Ridgeland MS city ordnances and there's nothing, i have ETL engineering working on it, But in TN the Dept of Comerce and insurance was their governing board, i can't find that MS inspectors have one. thanks for your reply
 
captain blue beer

captain blue beer

Member
Location
mississippi gulf coast
Occupation
Electrical Contractor
Dennis Alwon said:
@captain blue beer have you tried to contact the person in charge for the state. In NC we have a head engineer whose office and job it is is to make official interpretations. NC also has listed the NRTL's that they will accept.
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've read the city of Ridgeland MS city ordnances and there's nothing, i have ETL engineering working on it, But in TN the Dept of Commerce and insurance was their governing board, i can't find that MS inspectors have one. thanks for your reply
 
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