Old homes with no ground

[The electron man]

What's the best solution to protecting outlets with no ground , I was looking into it and what I found was the solution is to put a gfci, but would a gfci work without a ground ??

 

[LarryFine]

Because the source neutral is grounded. The circuit EGC has nothing to do with GFCI operation.

 

[The electron man]

Because the source neutral is grounded. The circuit EGC has nothing to do with GFCI operation.

1 . How's is the source neutral grounded

2. would I have to put a gfci in each ungrounded outlet or will one protect the whole circuit

3. If not could I just put in a gfci breaker ?

 

[LarryFine]

1 . How's is the source neutral grounded

By the utility and by the premises grounding-electrode system.

2. would I have to put a gfci in each ungrounded outlet or will one protect the whole circuit

One will protect those fed from the load terminals.

3. If not could I just put in a gfci breaker ?

Absolutely.

 

[hbiss]

. How's is the source neutral grounded

Back at the service and throughout the utility. Else why would you get a shock when you contact a hot and something connected to ground like a water pipe?

2. would I have to put a gfci in each ungrounded outlet or will one protect the whole circuit

Either or.

If not could I just put in a gfci breaker ?

You could.


-Hal

 

[The electron man]

Back at the service and throughout the utility. Else why would you get a shock when you contact a hot and something connected to ground like a water pipe?



Either or.



You could.


-Hal

But in old homes with no ground there is still bounding ?

 

[The electron man]

By the utility and by the premises grounding-electrode system.


One will protect those fed from the load terminals.


Absolutely.

So it will only protect the down stream right?

 

[LarryFine]

But in old homes with no ground there is still bounding ?

Absolutely. The only difference is the absent individual circuit EGCs.

 

[LarryFine]

So it will only protect the down stream right?

Absolutely again. It has to monitor the current in the circuit conductors.

In that sense, it's a "series" device (like a switch or fuse), not a "parallel" device (like a surge protector).

 

[electrofelon]

What's the best solution to protecting outlets with no ground , I was looking into it and what I found was the solution is to put a gfci, but would a gfci work without a ground ??

Honestly I wouldn't worry about it for most residential outlets as most general resi stuff doesn't have three prong plugs anyway.

 

[The electron man]

Absolutely. The only difference is the absent individual circuit EGCs.

Got it thanks again

 

[jaggedben]

But in old homes with no ground there is still bounding ?

Always good to check it was done right. (I've seen a few that weren't.) But the way it is supposed to be done hasn't changed in any important way for at least a hundred years.

 

[LarryFine]

I should have asked what kind of "protection" you're seeking.

An EGC assures that a L-G fault makes the OCPD behave like it would for a L-N fault.

 

[Little Bill]

So it will only protect the down stream right?

Absolutely again. It has to monitor the current in the circuit conductors.

In that sense, it's a "series" device (like a switch or fuse), not a "parallel" device (like a surge protector).

Not only downstream, but at the GFCI receptacle as well!

 

[synchro]

2. would I have to put a gfci in each ungrounded outlet or will one protect the whole circuit

3. If not could I just put in a gfci breaker ?

If there are any multi-wire branch circuits they will require GFCI breakers to be 2-pole with a load neutral output terminal.
After a MWBC splits into 2-wire branches you could use a GFCI receptacle and feed any more receptacles from its load side terminals.

 

[AC\DC]

Since your house is this old I don't think GFCI breakers is an option. If you can I would defiantly use these instead a receptacle GFCI. never know what was done in an old house and if your ever crawling under a house making sure the lines are GFCI is added protection.
Also tracing a GFCI is much better in a panel then behind a book shelf.

 

[LarryFine]

Not only downstream, but at the GFCI receptacle as well!

Of course.

 

[The electron man]

Not only downstream, but at the GFCI receptacle as well!

What do you mean all the gfci receptacles as well, those protect themselves since they are gfci

 

[Joethemechanic]

If this is a K&T installation and you use GFCI breakers, just be aware the neutrals might not be where you think they are, and there could be MWBCs that don't look like MWBCs.

 

[readydave8]

Honestly I wouldn't worry about it for most residential outlets as most general resi stuff doesn't have three prong plugs anyway.

Several times have left 2-prongs and ran new circuits to provide a 3-prong ea room