Your minimum PPE for residential breaker box work

[ericsarratt]

What PPE do you personally actually use when you work on a residential breaker panels with the dead front cover removed?

Even with the main breaker off there is still 240v coming in to the top of the panel.

Are you actually putting on an Arc Flash Hood when working on a residential breaker panel?
Are you actually using hearing protection?
Do you wear safety glasses?
Is there a significant arc flash or arc blast hazard on a residential panel?

This requires PPE Category 1:

• Required Clothing: Long Sleeve Shirt (or Jacket) and Pants or AR Coverall with a minimum arc rating of 4 cal/cm2
• Required Face and Head Protection: Face Shield (with “wrap-around” guarding… i.e. balaclava) or Arc Flash Hood
• As Needed: Arc Rated Jacket, Rainwear, Parka, Hard Hat Liner

In addition to AR clothing, the following products are required or to be used as needed:

• Required Hand Protection: Heavy-Duty Leather Gloves
• Additional PPE: Hard Hat, Eye Protection (Glasses, Goggles), Hearing Protection
• Footwear: Leather Footwear (as needed)

 

[letgomywago]

Does your company have an electrical safety program other than 70e?

Residential should be less than 150v to ground so hard to make sustained arc conditions, also low incident energy available in most situations

The standard for residential is very low. Your competitors will have a guy in flip flops and a polyester hood and no gloves do the work. You don't want to be that guy but personally for residential it's running shoes, leather gloves of some sort, and cotton clothes. I wear a baseball cap always though too especially in the attic.

 

[Dsg319]

Does your company have an electrical safety program other than 70e?

Residential should be less than 150v to ground so hard to make sustained arc conditions, also low incident energy available in most situations

The standard for residential is very low. Your competitors will have a guy in heydudes and a polyester hood and no gloves do the work. You don't want to be that guy but personally for residential it's running shoes, leather gloves of some sort, and cotton clothes. I wear a baseball cap always though too especially in the attic.

 

[Sberry]

I work on QO for so long I almost cant help but brush a Hom with my hand if its live. They make some nifty covers for lugs above mains now,, dont have to cut pop bottles to slide over it all. ha

 

[hillbilly1]

Does your company have an electrical safety program other than 70e?

Residential should be less than 150v to ground so hard to make sustained arc conditions, also low incident energy available in most situations

The standard for residential is very low. Your competitors will have a guy in flip flops and a polyester hood and no gloves do the work. You don't want to be that guy but personally for residential it's running shoes, leather gloves of some sort, and cotton clothes. I wear a baseball cap always though too especially in the attic.

I’ve seen higher Cal requirements for 120/208 than a 277/480 volt panel in the same room. It has a lot more to do with clearing time, than voltage.

 

[letgomywago]

I’ve seen higher Cal requirements for 120/208 than a 277/480 volt panel in the same room. It has a lot more to do with clearing time, than voltage.

OK 25kva transformer with no wire to house is 11500 amp short circuit. It's bad boom but not in the same league at all as a 3 phase 150 with 41000 amps available in a short circuit at all.

 

[tortuga]

What PPE do you personally actually use when you work on a residential breaker panels with the dead front cover removed?

.../snip/...

This requires PPE Category 1

There are two methods that can be used in an arc flash risk assessment to determine the arc flash boundary. PPE category method which uses the tables and the incident energy analysis method, which results in an arc flash boundary at a distance where the incident energy is 1.2 cal/cm2.
I have never see anybody do the energy analysis method of a residential service panel, but it would be neat to see someone run the numbers.

 

[letgomywago]

There are two methods that can be used in an arc flash risk assessment to determine the arc flash boundary. PPE category method which uses the tables and the incident energy analysis method, which results in an arc flash boundary at a distance where the incident energy is 1.2 cal/cm2.
I have never see anybody do the energy analysis method of a residential service panel, but it would be neat to see someone run the numbers.

I have personally seen a dead short on the utility on a overhead for residential. I saw a tiny pop and the fuse blew on the transformer that was it. I'm sure if I was 6 inches away I'd think it was a big explosion but other than a maybe little burned and temporarily blind that peticular incident I think would be something you'd walk away from. There's a point of no return with PPE for industrial where nothing will save you short of a concrete wall. I think those jobs could use some sacrificial robots maybe and keep people out of it as much as possible.

 

[ericsarratt]

I have never see anybody do the energy analysis method of a residential service panel, but it would be neat to see someone run the numbers.

Interesting. I plan on taking a course on 70e in the near future. I'll ask how (or if they have) ever run the numbers on this.

 

[Doc13067]

I wear electrical hazard rated boots and heavy work gloves. Sometimes glasses but that’s it. Speaking only for myself here. When I bug in I’ll throw on some latex gloves, dark glasses, and leather gloves, if it’s really sketchy I’ll bring out my 7200 volt gloves. The biggest I’ll ever see is single phase 400 amps.

 

[letgomywago]

Interesting. I plan on taking a course on 70e in the near future. I'll ask how (or if they have) ever run the numbers on this.

You should ask if they compared the use of undersized for a 200 service 6 awg on old worn out rusted transformers overhead 40 ft sized at 15kva 1 phase and the newer style 25kva with 80ft of 4/0 urd. I know both will blow up stuff but I want hard numbers and destructive testing with this equipment.

 

[Joethemechanic]

At minimum I say 3 Hail Marys, As the voltage and/or available fault current go up I add in some Our Fathers, and a few Apostle's Creed. Then I turn my face away and take a deep breath and hold it.

 

[jim dungar]

Interesting. I plan on taking a course on 70e in the near future. I'll ask how (or if they have) ever run the numbers on this.

There is not an industry standard for calculating arc flash incident energy on a single phase 120/240V system. Different companies may have their methodologies but the results are not always comparable to other companies' methods.

 

[kwired]

OK 25kva transformer with no wire to house is 11500 amp short circuit. It's bad boom but not in the same league at all as a 3 phase 150 with 41000 amps available in a short circuit at all.

But what is the total incident energy of the single phase situation you described if it takes one second to clear vs the three phase situation you described but it clears in 5 milliseconds? Time is a factor in the total incident energy.

One second would probably be an eternity if current is 11500, but trying to make a point.

 

[ericsarratt]

You should ask if they compared the use of undersized for a 200 service 6 awg on old worn out rusted transformers overhead 40 ft sized at 15kva 1 phase and the newer style 25kva with 80ft of 4/0 urd. I know both will blow up stuff but I want hard numbers and destructive testing with this equipment.

I was thinking about the overhead equipment and what role this played. I'll add it in.

By the way, the course I plan to go to is the one in Maryland in October that mayanees mentioned in my other post.

 

[ericsarratt]

There is not an industry standard for calculating arc flash incident energy on a single phase 120/240V system. Different companies may have their methodologies but the results are not always comparable to other companies' methods.

Thank you. That is surprising... and interesting.

What I'm really trying to figure out with the post is how to keep myself safe as well as any future potential employees I hire.

 

[ericsarratt]

Is there some simple online calculator where you can put in the electrical parameters of what you are working on and get the arc flash and arc blast distances?

 

[ericsarratt]

Does your company have an electrical safety program other than 70e?

Residential should be less than 150v to ground so hard to make sustained arc conditions, also low incident energy available in most situations

The standard for residential is very low. Your competitors will have a guy in flip flops and a polyester hood and no gloves do the work. You don't want to be that guy but personally for residential it's running shoes, leather gloves of some sort, and cotton clothes. I wear a baseball cap always though too especially in the attic.

Yes. And, I am developing it.

I am a utility contractor and I hold multiple other trade licenses/certifications. I am not a licensed electrician...yet.

I have taken OSHA 10 for general industry and OSHA 30 for construction.

I also have also been consulting with OSHA in North Carolina, but I went beyond their knowledge area for electric and so I started reading and hunting down electric courses.

I asked about residential electric safety because I have been doing some work on my own home's breaker box.

I also do work for customers on pump control panels for septic systems (120v-240v) and sewage lift pumps for plumbing.

And I am in school for HVAC--my wife calls me a career student. We have trained on single phase 240v and 3 phase 600v.

There are almost no electrical safety trainings available in my State and they don't teach us anything about electric safety in school.

 

[letgomywago]

Yes. And, I am developing it.

I am a utility contractor and I hold multiple other trade licenses/certifications. I am not a licensed electrician...yet.

I have taken OSHA 10 for general industry and OSHA 30 for construction.

I also have also been consulting with OSHA in North Carolina, but I went beyond their knowledge area for electric and so I started reading and hunting down electric courses.

I asked about residential electric safety because I have been doing some work on my own home's breaker box.

I also do work for customers on septic systems (pump control panels), plumbing (sewage lift pumps) and HVAC systems.

You should consult with your future qualifying Master electrician for the company who'll get you licensed as an electrical contractor. They'll probably have an opinion and they'd be the one who's training individuals in this.

 

[Joethemechanic]

3 phase 600v.

Do they have much 600v in NC?