smoke detector locations - unusual floor plan

[Mr. Serious]

I'm unsure exactly where to put smoke detectors in this house. I read some other posts here, and from that I gather they're supposed to be one in each sleeping area and one within 15 feet outside each sleeping area, but not within 5 feet of a bathroom and not within 10 feet of a stove. Floor plan diagram below with rough draft of some circuits. The top of the picture is the back of the house. The stove is not drawn on my diagram, but it goes on the outside wall of the house, immediately to the right of the sink. Basement is unfinished, but has a washer and dryer down there.

Normally I would put a smoke detector in each bedroom and a smoke/CO detector in the hallway and/or LR directly outside the bedrooms, but here we have a kitchen directly outside the bedroom, with the stove right there. So I still will put a smoke alarm in each bedroom, but perhaps just one smoke/CO in the dining room, to the left of the stairs on my picture? Otherwise two smoke/CO detectors, one near the back door, far left of the stove to be 10 feet away, but still in the kitchen area, and one in the hallway near the stairs to the basement.

Other question: minimum distance from a ceiling fan to a smoke alarm? I thought i read once it's supposed to be 3 feet minimum from the tip of the blades horizontally, but I don't remember.

 

[Sea Nile]

I looked it up once in NFPA 72.

I believe its actually 21' or 21-1/2 feet from bedroom.

But like you tell your apprentice, better to be in a closer distance so there is no questions.

Example, you tell your apprentice to put a staple 6-8 inches from a box so that you know it will be within 12"

All your other measurements are the same as what I've experienced. I think you left out 3 feet from an Air conditioner register

 

[Fred B]

2022 NFPA-72
29.8.1.1*
Where required by other governing laws, codes, or standards for a specific type of occupancy, listed single- and multiple-station smoke alarms shall be installed as follows:

• (1)* In all sleeping rooms and guest rooms
• (2)* Outside of each separate dwelling unit sleeping area, within 21 ft (6.4 m) of any door to a sleeping room, with the distance measured along a path of travel
• (3) On every level of a dwelling unit, including basements
• (4) On every level of a residential board and care occupancy (small facility), including basements and excluding crawl spaces and unfinished attics
• (5)* In the living area(s) of a guest suite
• (6) In the living area(s) of a residential board and care occupancy (small facility)

29.11.3* Smoke Alarms and Smoke Detectors.
Smoke alarms, smoke detectors, devices, combination of devices, and equipment shall be installed in accordance with the manufacturer’s listing and published instructions, and, unless specifically listed for the application, shall comply with requirements in 29.11.3.1 through 29.11.3.4.
29.11.3.4(4)*
Smoke alarms and smoke detectors shall not be installed between 10 ft (3.0 m) and 20 ft (6.1 m) along a horizontal flow path from a stationary or fixed cooking appliance unless the devices comply with the following:

• (a) Prior to January 1, 2025, smoke alarms and smoke detectors shall be equipped with an alarm silencing means, use photoelectric detection, or be listed for resistance to common nuisance sources from cooking in accordance with the 8th edition of UL 217, Smoke Alarms, the 7th edition of UL 268, Smoke Detectors for Fire Alarm Systems, or subsequent editions.
• (b) Effective January 1, 2025, smoke alarms and smoke detectors shall be listed for resistance to common nuisance sources from cooking in accordance with the 8th edition of UL 217, the 7th edition of UL 268, or subsequent editions.

29.11.3.4(6)*
Smoke alarms and smoke detectors shall not be installed within a 36 in. (910 mm) horizontal path from a door to a bathroom containing a shower or tub unless listed for installation in close proximity to such locations.

 

[James L]

All your other measurements are the same as what I've experienced. I think you left out 3 feet from an Air conditioner register

3 feet away is kind of across the board.
3 feet from bathroom door and any artificial air movement such as a ceiling fan or an attic fan or HVAC grille

 

[Dennis Alwon]

Put one at the bottom of the stairs in the hall. Make it a smoke/carbon detector. You don't need one outside every door. The one by the stairs should suffice along with the others in the bedroom. The carbon only needs to be in the hall not in the bedrooms

 

[Mr. Serious]

Put one at the bottom of the stairs in the hall. Make it a smoke/carbon detector. You don't need one outside every door. The one by the stairs should suffice along with the others in the bedroom. The carbon only needs to be in the hall not in the bedrooms

Sorry, forgot to mention, these are stairs going down to an unfinished basement. Does the basement require a smoke alarm? I thought not, since it's unfinished. If so, it seems the proper place to put it would actually be in the stair area because that is open to the basement. There is a door at the top of the stairs, but the bottom is open.

I already put a box for a smoke/CO alarm in the hallway near the stairs. I thought I needed another one in the kitchen area because of the door there leading into the bedroom, but I see now that the requirement is within 21 feet, and the one in the hall will be within 21 feet of that door. So I only need 4 total - 3 smoke alarms, one in each bedroom; and one smoke/CO in the hall near the stairs.

 

[Mr. Serious]

I just realized, the one in the hall and the two in the bedrooms closest to the kitchen will be within 20 feet of the stove. In the case of the bedrooms, there will be doors in between. And between the hall and the dining room, there's a framed opening with no door, but the wall comes down from the ceiling a foot. Is that considered a barrier so that I can be closer than 20 feet to the stove?

 

[Dennis Alwon]

Isn't the room off the kitchen the dining room?

 

[Fred B]

Sorry, forgot to mention, these are stairs going down to an unfinished basement. Does the basement require a smoke alarm? I thought not, since it's unfinished. If so, it seems the proper place to put it would actually be in the stair area because that is open to the basement. There is a door at the top of the stairs, but the bottom is open.

I already put a box for a smoke/CO alarm in the hallway near the stairs. I thought I needed another one in the kitchen area because of the door there leading into the bedroom, but I see now that the requirement is within 21 feet, and the one in the hall will be within 21 feet of that door. So I only need 4 total - 3 smoke alarms, one in each bedroom; and one smoke/CO in the hall near the stairs.

Basement yes, usually a combo.

 

[Mr. Serious]

Isn't the room off the kitchen the dining room?

Yes, but the next room is the hall, and measured straight from the stove through the dining room into the hall is less than 20 feet.

 

[James L]

I would place detectors at each location I marked with a circle.

Then I would pick one of the locations marked with an "X" and put a loop there for cutting in later if needed. Don't make it the end of the line, just in case you leave it

 

[Dennis Alwon]

Yes, but the next room is the hall, and measured straight from the stove through the dining room into the hall is less than 20 feet.

The room to the right of the kitchen that has a tv connection is the dining room then no sd is needed there.

In the picture above I would only install the 3 that are circles and one in the basement

 

[tthh]

If this is a build where you have a bit more latitude with the customer, you might want to run something, even low voltage to the kitchen for a heat detector and the garage. I would expect some new rules eventually for detectors in garages given the prevalence of batteries in garages -- cars, tools, bike, etc.

Another thing I ran into recently was a lot more insurance companies are now requiring monitored alarm systems as a condition of the policy. At least for homes over a certain rebuild value. Of course, you can always wireless everything after the fact, but you can't beat wired.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

I see now that the room to the right of the kitchen is a bedroom. We had a similar situation where there was literally no place to install a smoke detector without being in the kitchen area. The smoke detectors instructions usually state not more than 15' (I believe) from a bedroom door so the one by the stairs will not satisfy the code. Being that the one outside the other bedroom would be in an area where the instructions say to avoid and the code requires one in that area, then I would probably put an end of the line box outside the bedroom. You can also ask the inspector which way he wants you go.

I think the only reason to keep it away from the kitchen is because of possibility of tripping the alarm.

 

[Mr. Serious]

Sorry, I should have labeled the rooms to start with. This is a 100 year old house being remodeled, that's why the strange floor plan. Here it is labeled, with the yellow circles moved to where I actually roughed in the smoke alarm boxes. I realize two of them may be too close to ceiling fans. Each bedroom will have a ceiling fan in the center.

It passed rough inspection yesterday, but maybe I should still check to get the head inspector's opinion before the final inspection. And according to the other replies here, I need to add one in the basement. The basement is unfinished and small. The basement ceiling is only 6 feet high and it extends only under the kitchen and most of the dining room, excluding the west three feet (the part behind where the stairs begin).

I had asked earlier, since the stairs are completely open to the basement area, would that smoke detector then go in the ceiling of the stairs? The stairway ceiling is at the level of the main floor ceiling, it doesn't slope down. I would only need 5 feet of wire to come off the middle bedroom smoke alarm and put one above the stairs.

 

[Mr. Serious]

I still forgot to draw in the stove. Here is how the kitchen is arranged:

Left to right along the back wall of the house - dishwasher, sink, stove, empty space that may become stairs to a future upstairs addition. The closet that says "future bathroom" would be under those future stairs, if they do ever add on an upstairs area.

Left to right along the wall between the kitchen and DR: microwave and appliance garage, old chimney being kept only for looks, island/peninsula with an extra sink, passageway to dining room, fridge in the SW corner of the kitchen. I wouldn't normally put the fridge on the same circuit with all the DR receptacles, but they gave me a panel with only 20 spaces and wouldn't accept any addition for a subpanel.

 

[James L]

since the stairs are completely open to the basement area, would that smoke detector then go in the ceiling of the stairs?

No, in the basement ceiling downstairs.

 

[James L]

I wouldn't normally put the fridge on the same circuit with all the DR receptacles

Very common practice. Since dining room counts as small appliance, and they're usually never used, it's like having a dedicated circuit to the fridge

 

[Mr. Serious]

in the basement ceiling downstairs

OK. For clarification - since this ceiling is unfinished, it's just 2x6s on 16" centers. You would mount it at the bottom of one of the 2x6s rather than up in between them, right? I'm pretty sure I've seen them done that way before, but I've never done one. It's very unusual to have a basement at all around here.

 

[James L]

OK. For clarification - since this ceiling is unfinished, it's just 2x6s on 16" centers. You would mount it at the bottom of one of the 2x6s rather than up in between them, right? I'm pretty sure I've seen them done that way before, but I've never done one. It's very unusual to have a basement at all around here.

Yes, attached at the bottom edge of the joist
Just treat it like a sheetrock ceiling