EV circuit installation

[Max Headroom]

Does anybody know if GFCI breaker’s are required in So California, Los Angeles County area for EVSE in garages, thanks

 

[tortuga]

Is is a hard wired outlet or a receptacle outlet?

625.54 Ground-Fault Circuit-Interrupter Protection for Personnel​

In addition to the requirements in 210.8, all receptacles installed for the connection of electric vehicle charging shall have ground-fault circuit-interrupter protection for personnel.

 

[Max Headroom]

Is is a hard wired outlet or a receptacle outlet?

Copy that, thank you. I haven’t seen the job yet but if I run emt the 8 awg thhn is 50 Amp, I should be able to use that provided my receptacle and breaker are 75 c, but NM B would require 6 AWG 334.80, otherwise USE or SE 6 awg is that correct

 

[Max Headroom]

Sorry correction regarding the SE an USE wire gauge , I meant 8 awg thank you

 

[tortuga]

Yeah I think your good there. I try to hardwire them if the customer lets me, then no GFCI breaker or receptacle needed.

 

[Max Headroom]

Yeah I think your good there. I try to hardwire them if the customer lets me, then no GFCI breaker or needed.

 

[Max Headroom]

That would be great if I could use a standard breaker, what about the receptacle brand, are you paying the big money for the Hubble or a Home Depot 10-15 dollar one. Last one I bought from a local electrical supply was only about $12 I used for a 40 A range circuit, it seemed fine but the terminals were damaging my # 8 conductors as they were made to accommodate a wide range of wire size, I would have liked to crimp something on the ends of my wire for the terminal screws to crush down on but I wasn’t sure if that might make things worse.

 

[wwhitney]

That would be great if I could use a standard breaker, what about the receptacle brand,

Per post #2, if you are using a receptacle, then you will need to provide GFCI protection.

https://up.codes/viewer/california/ca-electric-code-2022/chapter/6/special-equipment#625.54

Cheers, Wayne

 

[Max Headroom]

Per post #2, if you are using a receptacle, then you will need to provide GFCI protection.

https://up.codes/viewer/california/ca-electric-code-2022/chapter/6/special-equipment#625.54

Cheers, Wayne

I am using my phone as my internet has been down waiting on Frontier since Saturday, I only now realized I wasn’t seeing everything posted, my apologies to all. Ok from previous post it seems that without a doubt that with a receptacle I am going to have to buy a GFCI breaker and hardwired I won’t, definitely hardwired sounds like the far better option as this guy is getting quotes for $800-$900. I haven’t checked on the cost of a permit yet but will do that this morning, surrounding cities are expensive though , at least $200 for a circuit.

 

[retirede]

You need to know details about the EVSE. Not all are capable being hard-wired.
If installing a receptacle, a high-quality, industrial version is a must. You can find many examples of melted $10 Ideal receptacles on EV forums.

 

[Max Headroom]

You need to know details about the EVSE. Not all are capable being hard-wired.
If installing a receptacle, a high-quality, industrial version is a must. You can find many examples of melted $10 Ideal receptacles on EV forums.

Excellent, thank you for that, I will definitely keep that in mind. So just to be clear, this is not a result of improper torquing or other misdeeds like a little of the insulation underneath the terminal screw, those Hubbles are around $100 and then about the same for the GFCI breaker

 

[tortuga]

The whole range receptacle NEMA 14-50 for a EVSE is bizarre to me.
No electric car takes 120/240 thru the EVSE, its just 240.
I have only ever seen one Level 2 EVSE that uses a neutral, and that was a commercial 'pay to use' unit at a public library building about 10 years ago.
Now even those are all 240V.

 

[Max Headroom]

The whole range receptacle NEMA 14-50 for a EVSE is bizarre to me.
No electric car takes 120/240 thru the EVSE, its just 240.
I have only ever seen one Level 2 EVSE that uses a neutral, and that was a commercial 'pay to use' unit at a public library building about 10 years ago.
Now even those are all 240V.

Right but the plug on the EVSE determines whether or not we use a neutral correct? Also if you hardwire then there would be no neutral either? Does some EVSE come with a neutral terminal for hardwiring? I just spoke to bldg/sfty $ 98 for the permit, no GFCI necessary if hardwired unless the manufacturers instructions call for it

 

[LarryFine]

The whole range receptacle NEMA 14-50 for a EVSE is bizarre to me.
No electric car takes 120/240 thru the EVSE, its just 240.
I have only ever seen one Level 2 EVSE that uses a neutral, and that was a commercial 'pay to use' unit at a public library building about 10 years ago.
Now even those are all 240V.

Agreed, but if I install a receptacle with a neutral terminal, I'm going to wire the neutral.

 

[hbiss]

Somebody really needs to figure this EVSE garbage out. ONE way of installing a charger, all the same.

-Hal

 

[Max Headroom]

Agreed, but if I install a receptacle with a neutral terminal, I'm going to wire the neutral.

Agreed 100%

 

[jaggedben]

The whole range receptacle NEMA 14-50 for a EVSE is bizarre to me.
No electric car takes 120/240 thru the EVSE, its just 240.
I have only ever seen one Level 2 EVSE that uses a neutral, and that was a commercial 'pay to use' unit at a public library building about 10 years ago.
Now even those are all 240V.

I gather the problem is that there's no such thing as standard NEMA receptacles with two lines and a ground but no neutral. I think I would have seen that if it existed?

So they are using what they had. There's also the part where people want to be able to re-use existing receptacles, such as the dryer or welder in the garage. So the plug-in EVSEs are made for those.

 

[tortuga]

Right but the plug on the EVSE determines whether or not we use a neutral correct?

No the EVSE manufacturers put a 4 wire range cord on there to be 'helpful'. Probably for compatibility with RV outlets.
But when I open them up they are all 240V, the neutral is sometimes just snipped off the cord not even on a terminal.

Also if you hardwire then there would be no neutral either?

Correct, always check the nameplate to verify.

I gather the problem is that there's no such thing as standard NEMA receptacles with two lines and a ground but no neutral.

Its called a NEMA 6-50, 240V 2 hots + ground I use them for welders and kilns.

 

[hillbilly1]

I am using my phone as my internet has been down waiting on Frontier since Saturday, I only now realized I wasn’t seeing everything posted, my apologies to all. Ok from previous post it seems that without a doubt that with a receptacle I am going to have to buy a GFCI breaker and hardwired I won’t, definitely hardwired sounds like the far better option as this guy is getting quotes for $800-$900. I haven’t checked on the cost of a permit yet but will do that this morning, surrounding cities are expensive though , at least $200 for a circuit.

If it’s anywhere like Atlanta, the permit will be outrageous. I permitted a house at my previous company, City of Atlanta wanted a separate permit for the EV. That permit was more than the permit for the whole house! It’s all a money game.

 

[tthh]

I bought a used level 2 charger off Facebook marketplace. Took the cover off...of course, why not The plug is a 14-30P. The neutral is capped off right where the cord comes into the device with shrink tubing.

BTW, this is for my wife's Rav4 Prime -- it is a plug in hybrid. This thing is awesome. 50+ miles on a charge, switches to gas engine when the battery is low. It is so smooth you can't tell it switched to gas. I changed the oil at 6,000 miles and I probably could have put it back in the bottle it looked new. When on gasoline it gets 60+ mpg. Very very fast. Charges full overnight on the Toyota 120V charger or less time on the level 2 charger. Oh and it comes with a spare tire.