Wind Farm Load usage calculation

[adityalagudu3291]

We are looking to calculate Max, Nominal and Min "Load Usage" of a Wind plant at Point of Interconnection (POI). As the load usage depends on wind speeds, operating characteristics of turbines, and reactive/capacitive banks consumption in the substation etc. Please share any ideas or tools that you worked on or came across to manually calculate the load usage without the use of simulation Software.

 

[gadfly56]

We are looking to calculate Max, Nominal and Min "Load Usage" of a Wind plant at Point of Interconnection (POI). As the load usage depends on wind speeds, operating characteristics of turbines, and reactive/capacitive banks consumption in the substation etc. Please share any ideas or tools that you worked on or came across to manually calculate the load usage without the use of simulation Software.

If any of those elements were reasonably constant, especially wind speed, you might have a fighting chance. There is no way you can do a manual calculation that will produce anything resembling a good answer. They make simulation software for this purpose for a reason.

 

[ramsy]

You could search this forum, but most renewable energy discussions are between solar-array experts.

NFPA-70 ARTICLE 694 "Wind Electric Systems" defines some industry jargon, such as Diversion Load / Controllers, and references other articles used with this equipment.

But no reference to Article 220 "load, calcs", no design guidance / instructions, much less beyond 150-Volts to ground, except for working space.

 

[Joethemechanic]

Is that even NEC? Sounds like it would be NESC

 

[don_resqcapt19]

Is that even NEC? Sounds like it would be NESC

That is one of the huge problems with large solar and wind...the connections to the utility are the service point and the wind or solar generation is on the load side of the service point putting the installation under the NEC. This would change if the solar of wind was owned by the utilty, but that is not common. Load side of service point is the NEC, line side is the NESC.
The NEC does not do a great job with these large scale installations.

 

[David Castor]

The wind turbine manufacturer should provide detailed information on power requirements for each tower. This will vary considerably for cold weather versus hot weather. The maximum power required times the number of wind turbines is the maximum demand.

 

[Joethemechanic]

Years ago I was working for Nooter - Ericsson and worked on a lot of cogen plants they built for the refineries. I think the largest was Exxon Linden four units totaling 500MW. Are facilities that big following NEC?

 

[don_resqcapt19]

Years ago I was working for Nooter - Ericsson and worked on a lot of cogen plants they built for the refineries. I think the largest was Exxon Linden four units totaling 500MW. Are facilities that big following NEC?

Sort of, but with a lot of engineering supervision. Often the AHJ has to hire outside engineering for the inspections.

 

[electrofelon]

I don't really understand what you are looking for. Are you trying to figure out typical energy production, or Max ratings to size equipment?

 

[David Castor]

Wind turbines consume a lot of power, due to low capacity factors. In central Oregon, wind farms are often the local REA's biggest customer.

 

[gadfly56]

The wind turbine manufacturer should provide detailed information on power requirements for each tower. This will vary considerably for cold weather versus hot weather. The maximum power required times the number of wind turbines is the maximum demand.

It is suddenly unclear to me if we are talking about the wind farm as the load side, or the grid as the load side.

 

[ggunn]

Wind turbines consume a lot of power, due to low capacity factors. In central Oregon, wind farms are often the local REA's biggest customer.

I'm confused; how is it that wind generators consume power? Are you saying that they are net consumers of energy?

 

[Joethemechanic]

I'm confused; how is it that wind generators consume power? Are you saying that they are net consumers of energy?

Yeah in some places they are consumers I believe they have to be kept rotating to avoid warping the blades

 

[adityalagudu3291]

We are looking for the power consumption of a GE1.5MW wind turbine to sustain its operation, under different wind conditions. We have GE1.5sle Wind turbines at our facility.

Looking for the the Maximum, Nominal, Minimum power consumption of this turbine model and eventually calculate internal "Load usage" of the plant. As the power consumption of the turbine varies based on its reactive power capability and other internal equipment, based on high and low wind conditions, would like to have this info to size the power quality meters at POI. Many functions that use the power in a wind turbine including, yaw mechanism, blade pitch control, heaters, controllers etc.

 

[electrofelon]

We are looking for the power consumption of a GE1.5MW wind turbine to sustain its operation, under different wind conditions. We have GE1.5sle Wind turbines at our facility.

Looking for the the Maximum, Nominal, Minimum power consumption of this turbine model and eventually calculate internal "Load usage" of the plant. As the power consumption of the turbine varies based on its reactive power capability and other internal equipment, based on high and low wind conditions, would like to have this info to size the power quality meters at POI. Many functions that use the power in a wind turbine including, yaw mechanism, blade pitch control, heaters, controllers etc.

Seems like that is a question for the manufacturer. I doubt any of us on this forum have one of those in our backyard

 

[ggunn]

... I believe they have to be kept rotating to avoid warping the blades

Can you cite a source for that information? Even if what you say is true (and I do not know either way), it is difficult for me to accept that a wind turbine can be a net consumer of energy if it is correctly installed in a productive wind zone.

 

[electrofelon]

Can you cite a source for that information? Even if what you say is true (and I do not know either way), it is difficult for me to accept that a wind turbine can be a net consumer of energy if it is correctly installed in a productive wind zone.

Consumption of Electricity by Wind Turbines [AWEO.org]

Report on the use of electricity by wind turbines.

www.aweo.org

It's on the internet, it must be true!

 

[Joethemechanic]

Can you cite a source for that information? Even if what you say is true (and I do not know either way), it is difficult for me to accept that a wind turbine can be a net consumer of energy if it is correctly installed in a productive wind zone.

I can't remember where I read about the warping, but I did find this

Lastly, wind turbines will sometimes draw power from the grid to keep moving, especially during the cold winter months when the blades and gears might otherwise freeze.

How are wind turbines powered when there is no wind | Kurz Wind

Wind turbines can produce impressive amounts of power, and they can be excellent sources of alternative power for those who want...Read more

www.kurzwind.com

 

[ggunn]

I can't remember where I read about the warping, but I did find this

How are wind turbines powered when there is no wind | Kurz Wind

Wind turbines can produce impressive amounts of power, and they can be excellent sources of alternative power for those who want...Read more

www.kurzwind.com

I can accept that there is some power used by a wind turbine, but what I find questionable is any assertion that they are net consumers of energy.

 

[David Castor]

I did not say that they are net consumers of energy. Wind turbines consume considerable energy when they are not operating, which is a lot of the time. There are auxiliary loads (oil pumps, heater, hydraulics, control systems, etc) that require power. Also, the wind farm must BUY power from whatever utility service territory they are in. They SELL power to someone else, generally. So any period of time when the wind turbine is consuming power, it must be purchased from the local REA, regardless of the overall net output of the wind farm over time.