NEC 110.26(B) and trash cans

[raberding]

Hi all. We have an architect who thinks it's ok to place rolling trash bins in front of panelboards. Seems subject to AHJ interp, but I say it's not permitted.
thoughts???

 

[electrofelon]

How could it not be violating that section? What is the interpretation that makes it not a violation?

 

[raberding]

How could it not be violating that section? What is the interpretation that makes it not a violation?

that's what I think too. thx

 

[infinity]

Show him the Article 100 definition of readily accessible.

 

[jaggedben]

I think it's fine. Because the cans have wheels, and they are presumably regularly moved anyway, which means I can move them out of the way in 10 seconds if I need access.

I also don't think it's a violation if you put a panel on a garage wall where a regularly used car is parked slightly under 3ft away.

In both cases, the regular moving of the items means to me it's not 'storage'.

Now if the car is a weekend project and the motor has been removed...

 

[augie47]

I've rolled many a trash can out of the way to inspect a panel and never considered it a 110.26 violation. Electricians and Fire marshals are usually the only ones who compllain and 5 min after they are gone the owner rolls the cans back.

 

[electrofelon]

I think it's fine. Because the cans have wheels, and they are presumably regularly moved anyway, which means I can move them out of the way in 10 seconds if I need access.

I also don't think it's a violation if you put a panel on a garage wall where a regularly used car is parked slightly under 3ft away.

In both cases, the regular moving of the items means to me it's not 'storage'.

Now if the car is a weekend project and the motor has been removed...

Whether the item has wheels or not or is easy to move does not seem to be part of the language. Garbage/cans are being stored there. Now that said it's kind of an academic thing because no one is going to be enforcing the NEC after the project is completed (except as Augie said the fire department, my client gets zinged with stuff like that and extension cords, etc by them).

 

[Sberry]

I think we are missing suitably gaurded here and what that means.

 

[jaggedben]

I think we are missing suitably gaurded here and what that means.

That has nothing to do with the garbage can question.

 

[jaggedben]

Whether the item has wheels or not or is easy to move does not seem to be part of the language. Garbage/cans are being stored there. Now that said it's kind of an academic thing because no one is going to be enforcing the NEC after the project is completed (except as Augie said the fire department, my client gets zinged with stuff like that and extension cords, etc by them).

Well, the AHJ can go consult a dictionary. Oxford has 'store' implying laying away for 'future' use and Merriam Webster says 'later' use. Seems to me the garbage cans would be always presently in use.

I do agree that a fair interpretation could depend on residential vs. commercial or other details of the particular situation making it more or less likely that the cans couldn't/wouldn't be moved.

 

[electrofelon]

Well, the AHJ can go consult a dictionary. Oxford has 'store' implying laying away for 'future' use and Merriam Webster says 'later' use. Seems to me the garbage cans would be always presently in use.

I do agree that a fair interpretation could depend on residential vs. commercial or other details of the particular situation making it more or less likely that the cans couldn't/wouldn't be moved.

Ok so the cans are always in use holding the garbage, but the garbage is being stored there until it is removed. But then again the garbage isn't stored for future "use" so i guess the garbage is also not being ,"stored"

 

[retirede]

Well, the AHJ can go consult a dictionary. Oxford has 'store' implying laying away for 'future' use and Merriam Webster says 'later' use. Seems to me the garbage cans would be always presently in use.

I do agree that a fair interpretation could depend on residential vs. commercial or other details of the particular situation making it more or less likely that the cans couldn't/wouldn't be moved.

If they’re literally “not for future use”, that means you can’t add trash once they’re placed there.

 

[infinity]

How is the can in front of the panel not an obstacle?

 

[jaggedben]

How is the can in front of the panel not an obstacle?

How is your toolbag not an obstacle? The code does not use the word 'obstacle'. It uses the word 'storage'. See dictionary definition.

 

[Sberry]

That has nothing to do with the garbage can question.

Sure it does. Do we let everyone opening these cans whip the lid against this electric equipment. In order to guard from this we would need a guard, for that working distance. Already has skid marks on it. We gonna tell the architect that putting garbage in front of the service equipment is a good place for it. We can debate every fine word for it, is it a good idea? Should we even have to make a rule or maybe we should, need a place for the garbage.

 

[Sberry]

Lets write a proposal,,,, cant have the panels as a backstop for the dumpsters.

 

[jaggedben]

If they’re literally “not for future use”, that means you can’t add trash once they’re placed there.

Exactly. Since you're adding trash, it's in use, therefore not stored.

Sure it does. Do we let everyone opening these cans whip the lid against this electric equipment. In order to guard from this we would need a guard, for that working distance.

That part has to do with exposed live parts, which is not as issue when the panel deadfronts are on. The cans will be gone when the covers are off. Go read that part again.

Whether the trash can lids subject the panels to physical damage is debatable, but is also a different question and code section.

 

[hillbilly1]

K-Mart used chain link fences to enclose the electrical rooms, problem was, you couldn’t get to the door to get into the electrical room because the merchandise received was stacked all the way across in front of it. Zayres would have signs in the stock rooms saying “Please don’t put anything on top of heaters” (transformers) LOL!

 

[Sberry]

a different section would still make it a violation.

 

[jaggedben]

Lets write a proposal,,,, cant have the panels as a backstop for the dumpsters.

Different issue, different code section. See 110.27(B).

I don't think plastic rolling trash cans rise to that level, (especially if they fit below the equipment).