CALIFORNIA ENERGY COMMISSION - Heat Pumps Are the Wave of the Future.

[mtnelect]

Heat Pumps are the wave of the future, for HVAC, Pool Heaters and Water Heaters. Duct systems waste energy with leaks to the attic, and under the house. Gas Pool Heaters, and Water Heaters waste energy with poor heat transfer.

 

[retirede]

So….companies that sell heat pumps are in favor of regulations that require existing systems to be replaced with heat pumps.

Also….water is wet.

 

[mtnelect]

So….companies that sell heat pumps are in favor of regulations that require existing systems to be replaced with heat pumps.

Also….water is wet.

As everyone knows, we all resist change. It's new and different, and we just don't trust it. So, it will take time to determine if its "BS" or true. Time will tell.

 

[retirede]

As everyone knows, we all resist change. It's new and different, and we just don't trust it. So, it will take time to determine if its "BS" or true. Time will tell.

Heat pumps aren’t new or different. I’m not resisting or saying heat pumps are bad.

I just loathe blatant money-grabbing schemes.

 

[Birken Vogt]

As everyone knows, we all resist change. It's new and different, and we just don't trust it. So, it will take time to determine if its "BS" or true. Time will tell.

It is not new and different, I remember in the late 80s/early 90s when everybody was ripping out their 70s and 80s heat pumps because the electricity was too expensive to heat, and going to propane/NG.

But nothing like government mandates to provide "market signals".

However, propane and NG are quite high at the moment.

 

[Summit]

there are also HP cloth dryers, and they can be vent free. HPs in general are not new, just new to the US, where we have been fed a lie of cheap energy. They are all over Asia

 

[Frank DuVal]

Here in Virginia heat pumps have been the HVAC system of choice for 50 years! California is slow to change?

Mini-Splits are the "new" thing, but they are still a 10+ year old idea here in Virginia.

So, yes, Heat Pumps are the wave of the future, Model Ts will be replaced by other cars, and water is wet,.

 

[retirede]

there are also HP cloth dryers, and they can be vent free. HPs in general are not new, just new to the US, where we have been fed a lie of cheap energy. They are all over Asia

Heat pumps are not new to the US. Been around 40+ years.

 

[Summit]

not news but certainly not widely used. Why wouldn't they have been more prevailing with the 300-400% efficiency ? I am referring to using HP for heating, for sure there are abundant AC

 

[retirede]

not news but certainly not widely used. Why wouldn't they have been more prevailing with the 300-400% efficiency ? I am referring to using HP for heating, for sure there are abundant AC

In my locale, every home built in the last 30 years that is electrically heated uses a heat pump.

 

[suemarkp]

They were the wave of the future a long time ago. But now, they are finally getting more usable with the cold temp variants. These need little to no strip heat unless you want it as a fall back if the refrigerant loop has a problem. They can also be costly to retrofit if you have a house with a 100A service (service upgrade). I had a house with oil heat and a 200A service I had to increase to 400A to add a heat pump with 20KW of strip heat.

I still don't like how much the HVAC companies charge to extract and refill refrigerant. On my last heat pump, I lost TXV's twice. These are a $100 part and easy to install. But all of the refrigerant has to come out, drier replaced, and then they refill with new. That costs $1000 around here. I could buy a cylinder of refrigerant for less than 1/4 of what they charge for it, but most places won't sell it to you without an EPA license. I suppose I could probably take some stupid test to get the license, but it should not be this difficult and expensive.

 

[Frank DuVal]

not news but certainly not widely used.

Must be a California thing, mild climate and all....

We have been installing 200 amp services on residences for 40 years. Why? Because back then the heat pump needed the 10 KW emergency heater when the temperature dropped into the 20s. New systems it is lower, but we do get to zero now and then, depending on where in Virginia you are.

No one here speaks boilers for residential use. There are natural gas or LPG as backup instead of the electric strip heaters, mostly in rural places where electricity goes out and a small generator can power the gas backup.

So, I guess 90%+ of homes built in the last 40 years here are heat pump HVAC, since there are about zero oil or gas furnaces installed in new construction.

The all electric home program (Gold Medallion Home Program) started in the 60s, and VEPCO (now Dominion) was an early adopter.

 

[mtnelect]

They were the wave of the future a long time ago. But now, they are finally getting more usable with the cold temp variants. These need little to no strip heat unless you want it as a fall back if the refrigerant loop has a problem. They can also be costly to retrofit if you have a house with a 100A service (service upgrade). I had a house with oil heat and a 200A service I had to increase to 400A to add a heat pump with 20KW of strip heat.

I still don't like how much the HVAC companies charge to extract and refill refrigerant. On my last heat pump, I lost TXV's twice. These are a $100 part and easy to install. But all of the refrigerant has to come out, drier replaced, and then they refill with new. That costs $1000 around here. I could buy a cylinder of refrigerant for less than 1/4 of what they charge for it, but most places won't sell it to you without an EPA license. I suppose I could probably take some stupid test to get the license, but it should not be this difficult and expensive.

The big game changer is the use of "Ductless" Mini Splits:
1) No ducts
2) Compressor technology - Inverters
3) Not having to heat & cool the whole house, only the room your occupying
4) The ability to heat down to 32% without emergency heat
5) Zone systems are not allowed in California, also they require ducting with returns in each zone. When more than one zone closes down the coil will "Ice Up" for lack of air flow.

 

[suemarkp]

They need to make the indoor heads smaller and less ugly on the mini splits. I like the idea of zoning by room, but it helps to have higher ceilings so you can put the heads above windows, doors, or closets. However, they are still ugly rectangle bumps on the wall... I saw one unit that had a more square head that was intended to be mounted low. That looked better, kind of like a PTAC. Ductwork is fine if you have a conditioned basement, but zoning can still be an issue. Putting it in the attic is not a good idea nor is putting the air handler there.

 

[GeorgeB]

Heat pumps are not new to the US. Been around 40+ years.

hmm ... 60+ years in residential

 

[retirede]

hmm ... 60+ years in residential

40+ includes 60+

 

[mtnelect]

They need to make the indoor heads smaller and less ugly on the mini splits. I like the idea of zoning by room, but it helps to have higher ceilings so you can put the heads above windows, doors, or closets. However, they are still ugly rectangle bumps on the wall... I saw one unit that had a more square head that was intended to be mounted low. That looked better, kind of like a PTAC. Ductwork is fine if you have a conditioned basement, but zoning can still be an issue. Putting it in the attic is not a good idea nor is putting the air handler there.

Mini Splits also have Air Handlers that fit in the attic that can be converted to ductwork.

 

[Birken Vogt]

Price of electricity is high in Ca and scheduled to go higher. Reliability is low. You freeze when the power is out.

 

[VirutalElectrician]

Here in Virginia heat pumps have been the HVAC system of choice for 50 years! California is slow to change?

Mini-Splits are the "new" thing, but they are still a 10+ year old idea here in Virginia.

So, yes, Heat Pumps are the wave of the future, Model Ts will be replaced by other cars, and water is wet,.

Watching the various wars over seas on CNN, you can see minisplits in use all over 3rd world countries. Every apartment unit has one hanging outside.

They seem to do well to heat/cool areas that sort of stay between 20-100 degrees F over the course of the year.

I've got in floor heat in my garage that I use to keep it at 40F in the winter. Kind of a pain to remember to turn the heat up the day before I'm going to spend a day in the garage puttering. I plan to add a mini split to get AC in the summer. I'm hoping it'll do well to quickly warm the area up from 40 to 55 as temporary suplemental heat.

 

[VirutalElectrician]

Price of electricity is high in Ca and scheduled to go higher. Reliability is low. You freeze when the power is out.

Just read something the other day that said by 2040 energy will be half what it is now due to green initiatives starting to bear return on investment.

The IEA (I think?) published a report the other day that said we've already hit peak oil demand and we'll be going down from there. OPEC didn't like that much and said it'll be a decade or more before we hit peak oil.

In addition they arrogantly stated producing such a report was stupid because they have existing infrastructure they need to see a ROI on, and in addition such a report will disuade future needed investement in oil infrastructure since demand is still growing, which will cause future supply issues and price spikes when that needed oil can't be delivered.

We'll see.