Gas Pipe Bonding, Particularly CSST

[Rjryan]

I am really confused by gas pipe bonding. Mike Holt in his video states that the National Fuel Gas Code has been trying to get gas pipe bonding into the NEC, but it has not yet happened. Videos on YouTube show gas pipe bonding required by the manufacturer, State inspectors and look for by home inspectors.
Don't know how this works with NEC 250.52(B)(1).

 

[infinity]

Gas piping systems are not required to be bonded by the NEC via a separate bonding jumper. They are bonded by the EGC in the circuit feeding the gas appliance that is likely to energize it. CSST has a separate bonding requirement based on the manufacturer's instructions. That is not in the NEC.

 

[LarryFine]

I am really confused by gas pipe bonding.

It's more about bonding around CSST than it is about bonding the piping.

The appliance end of CSST is bonded by the EGC of the appliance. A nearby lightning strikes can drive current through the CSST by energizing the solid piping connected to the meter end from outside.

Bonding the latter to the service EGC/grounding bus effectively bonds both ends of the CSST together, bypassing that current.

 

[hbiss]

Further, because CSST is supplied and installed by the plumbing contractor he would be most familiar with what it requires. The new black jacketed CSST for instance does not require bonding. Therefore, it's not our responsibility to furnish the bonding but rather the plumbing contractor. That's why it's not in the NEC. Not our job.

-Hal

 

[augie47]

I agree with Hal but note that in our area ALL CSST requires bonding regardless of manufacturer install and about half the time the electrician ends up completing the task so you might want to verify the requirements in your specific area.

 

[Rjryan]

I am really confused by gas pipe bonding. Mike Holt in his video states that the National Fuel Gas Code has been trying to get gas pipe bonding into the NEC, but it has not yet happened. Videos on YouTube show gas pipe bonding required by the manufacturer, State inspectors and look for by home inspectors.
Don't know how this works with NEC 250.52(B)(1).

Further, because CSST is supplied and installed by the plumbing contractor he would be most familiar with what it requires. The new black jacketed CSST for instance does not require bonding. Therefore, it's not our responsibility to furnish the bonding but rather the plumbing contractor. That's why it's not in the NEC. Not our job.

-Hal

When you attach a bonding wire to the grounding buss of an electrical panel, it is electrical. A plumber is not licensed to be in an electrical panel
and is in no way is qualified to make the proper connection. What happens if the plumber were to hook it the neutral buss? Touches something hot in the panel.
Saying it is not an electrical problem, is ignoring the elephant in the room. Like any other piece of equipment gas CSST piping needs to be accessed by an electrician.
Yellow needs bonding, black does not, if questions arise refer to the installer or manufacturer.
Like Mike's Expert's always say, equipment must be installed to the Manufactures instructions.
The manufactures instruction are clear, yellow CSST must be bonded back to the panel.

 

[Rjryan]

I agree with Hal but note that in our area ALL CSST requires bonding regardless of manufacturer install and about half the time the electrician ends up completing the task so you might want to verify the requirements in your specific area.

I agree with Hal but note that in our area ALL CSST requires bonding regardless of manufacturer install and about half the time the electrician ends up completing the task so you might want to verify the requirements in your specific area.

Even an easier job if all CSST needs to be bonded. All the electrician needs to determine if it is present.

 

[infinity]

When you attach a bonding wire to the grounding buss of an electrical panel, it is electrical. A plumber is not licensed to be in an electrical panel
and is in no way is qualified to make the proper connection. What happens if the plumber were to hook it the neutral buss? Touches something hot in the panel.
Saying it is not an electrical problem, is ignoring the elephant in the room. Like any other piece of equipment gas CSST piping needs to be accessed by an electrician.

I agree that sounds like electricians work but unless it's a requirement of the local jurisdiction that it be installed by an electrician anyone can install it. The plumber or whoever else installs CSST does not need to go into the panel. The bonding jumper to the CSST can be tapped to any GEC on the outside of the panel. The plumber can always hire an electrician to make the connection is he is unqualified or unwilling to do so but it is not a requirement of the NEC.

 

[Eddie702]

In MA. I believe the plumber/gasfitter is supposed to hire an electrician to do the bonding unless it is the CSST with the black coating "Counter Strike" is one brand that does not require bonding.

Other than that as others have stated the gas pipe is bonded by the gas appliance electrical feed.

 

[mtnelect]

It's all about the gradients being pumped into the earth by the utilities. Look at your utility pole, does it have a wooden molding with a wire inside going to ground ?

 

[hbiss]

In MA. I believe the plumber/gasfitter is supposed to hire an electrician to do the bonding

And the electrician is supposed to do it according to what? There is nothing in our Code that says how to.

It's the plumbing code that requires bonding to be done and according to manufacturer's instructions. It's the plumber that is supposed to have the training and instruction from the CSST manufacturer. It's the plumbers who have access to the proper grounding fittings. That puts it 100% in the plumbing trade.

This is like a plumber replacing an electric water heater and telling the customer that he has to have an electrician come and connect it up.

-Hal

 

[LarryFine]

To me, if there is no legal requirement as to who install such a bond, it can be done by whomever wants to by agreement. For example, I have installed ducting for exhaust fans, microwaves, etc.

 

[hbiss]

To me, if there is no legal requirement as to who install such a bond

But if it's not bonded or done improperly who gets the violation?

-Hal

 

[rc/retired]

But if it's not bonded or done improperly who gets the violation?

-Hal

I failed the gas line if the CSST was not bonded. If the test pressure was ok and CSST wasn't bonded, my standard comment was,
Gas line test ok. Bond CSST per Fuel Gas Code.
I never failed the EC.

Ron

 

[Rjryan]

When you attach a bonding wire to the grounding buss of an electrical panel, it is electrical. A plumber is not licensed to be in an electrical panel
and is in no way is qualified to make the proper connection. What happens if the plumber were to hook it the neutral buss? Touches something hot in the panel.
Saying it is not an electrical problem, is ignoring the elephant in the room. Like any other piece of equipment gas CSST piping needs to be accessed by an electrician.
Yellow needs bonding, black does not, if questions arise refer to the installer or manufacturer.
Like Mike's Expert's always say, equipment must be installed to the Manufactures instructions.
The manufactures instruction are clear, yellow CSST must be bonded back to the panel.

After thinking about this, the real problem is not bonding, but an inferior product of CSST that needs bonding to protect it. It is truly a liability issue, not a question of electrical work. NEC 250.52(B)(1) gas piping cannot be used as a grounding electrode. Unless there is a dielectric coupling at the gas meter or the gas is feed by a nonmetallic line, the gas line becomes another grounding electrode, a completing ground.
While State Fire Marshalls are calling for bonding of CSST to prevent fires, they may be overlooking a cause of gas explosions by making gas
lines becoming current pathways.

 

[infinity]

After thinking about this, the real problem is not bonding, but an inferior product of CSST that needs bonding to protect it. It is truly a liability issue, not a question of electrical work.

If there is any liability is not on the electrician unless he installed the CSST.

 

[garbo]

We were told maybe 7 years ago at a continuing education class that every CSST manufacturer has there own recommended method to bond their product so it can be confusing. A friend got a natural gas fire place in his house and was written up for not having the 25' of CSST bonded. After several phone calls was told to only run #8 copper wire from copper cold water to the gas pipe where they entered basement. My thinking is besides the copper water service to steel gas line a copper wire from where the CSST connects to steel gas pipe be bonded to the CSST then to connection point at other end would be safer. Did not like how the plumber mounted the CSST tubing to face of 2" high baseboard and gets hit with vacuum cleaner.

 

[augie47]

You can find out more than you want to know about bonding CSST here:

CodeNotes: Bonding of corrugated stainless steel tubing gas piping systems - ICC

Lee Clifton, senior director of PMG Resources for the International Code Council, discusses the bonding of CSST gas piping systems in this latest CodeNotes.

www.iccsafe.org

 

[electrofelon]

It's all about the gradients being pumped into the earth by the utilities. Look at your utility pole, does it have a wooden molding with a wire inside going to ground ?

No, MGN distribution has nothing to do with CSST bonding. Also note even Delta distribution systems will have ground wires running down the pole. Here they run two on their Delta syatems: one to the transformer secondary center tap and one from the lightning arrestors.

 

[kwired]

Further, because CSST is supplied and installed by the plumbing contractor he would be most familiar with what it requires. The new black jacketed CSST for instance does not require bonding. Therefore, it's not our responsibility to furnish the bonding but rather the plumbing contractor. That's why it's not in the NEC. Not our job.

-Hal

I agree with Hal but note that in our area ALL CSST requires bonding regardless of manufacturer install and about half the time the electrician ends up completing the task so you might want to verify the requirements in your specific area.

I feel it needs to be bonded, but the black jacket stuff doesn't have the more complex rules the yellow jacket stuff has. IOW treat it about the same as you do black rigid pipe when it comes to bonding - the EGC to the appliance likely to energize it is sufficient to do the bonding.