Alwayslearningelec
Senior Member
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- Estimator
It's still a neutral by the Article 100 definition.It actually should be “ provide each circuit with a Dedicated Grounded Conductor” It will not be a neutral…it will be caring the same amount of current as the ungrounded conductor!
Neutral Conductor.
The conductor connected to the neutral point of a system that is intended to carry current under normal conditions
Yes according to the note a separate neutral for each circuit would be required.Guess this pretty clear dedicated neutrals are required?
A Grounded Conductor. A system or circuit conductor that is intentionally grounded!It's still a neutral by the Article 100 definition.
You stated that a 2 wire circuit with an ungrounded conductor and a neutral conductor would not contain a neutral. That is incorrect.A Grounded Conductor. A system or circuit conductor that is intentionally grounded!
Then give me an example of a Grounded Conductor!You stated that a 2 wire circuit with an ungrounded conductor and a neutral conductor would not contain a neutral. That is incorrect.
Since it is not connected to the neutral point how about a corner grounded 3 wire Delta?Then give me an example of a Grounded Conductor!
Neutral Point.
The common point on a wye-connection in a polyphase system or midpoint on a single-phase, 3-wire system, or midpoint of a single-phase portion of a 3-phase delta system, or a midpoint of a 3-wire, direct-
current system. (CMP-5)
Good one!Since it is not connected to the neutral point how about a corner grounded 3 wire Delta?
A grounded conductor(which is a neutral) and equipment grounding conductor are different, correct? I do know that but just confirming..lolIt actually should be “ provide each circuit with a Dedicated Grounded Conductor” It will not be a neutral…it will be caring the same amount of current as the ungrounded conductor!
Short answer, yes (The grounded conductor = neutral can get more complicated but we will keep it simple)A grounded conductor(which is a neutral) and equipment grounding conductor are different, correct? I do know that but just confirming..lol
YES (unless you have isolated grounding requirement)A homerun pipe with several circuits only needs to have ONE EGC, if not using the conduit as a EGC?
I actually don't think it's as clear as it could be. A multi-wire branch circuit is considered one circuit in the NEC in some instances and multiple circuits in others. If the intention of the note is to prohibit multi-wire branch circuits then it should say exactly that, or something equivalent such as "All branch circuits shall be 2-wire circuits with one ungrounded conductor and one neutral conductor." Otherwise I can claim that an MWBC is one circuit and that circuit has a dedicated neutral. So I'm not 100% what the intent of the note is, just taking the most reasonable guess.
Like jaggedben says, an MWBC is a single circuit, not just by the NEC definition but in it's physics. The grounded conductor of a two wire circuit is not a neutral except per the NEC definition.I don't see how a "dedicated neutral conductor" can be anything but a neutral for every circuit meaning no MWBC's. Not the best choice of words but the meaning is there. If MWBC's were permitted then the wording would not be needed.
I'm just saying that no one should look at the note that is in the OP and assume anything other than that no MWBC's are allowed. Although jaggedben is correct around here when someone uses the term dedicated neutral it means no MWBC's. It would have been clearer if they simply said no MWBC's but engineers are known to butcher electrical terms, first thing that comes to mind is what you mentioned in post #8 the word ground.Like jaggedben says, an MWBC is a single circuit, not just by the NEC definition but in it's physics. The grounded conductor of a two wire circuit is not a neutral except per the NEC definition.
In regards to multi wire branch circuits other circuits/ loads do not have their own dedicated neutral going back to the neutral buss but instead may be spliced at a junction box with all these paralleled loads coming from ONE neutral.I actually don't think it's as clear as it could be. A multi-wire branch circuit is considered one circuit in the NEC in some instances and multiple circuits in others. If the intention of the note is to prohibit multi-wire branch circuits then it should say exactly that, or something equivalent such as "All branch circuits shall be 2-wire circuits with one ungrounded conductor and one neutral conductor." Otherwise I can claim that an MWBC is one circuit and that circuit has a dedicated neutral. So I'm not 100% what the intent of the note is, just taking the most reasonable guess.
(FWIW, I don't care if they say 'neutral' or 'grounded' if, as is almost always the case, the wiring system has a grounded neutral and that is clear in other specs.)
Come on, the conductor in question is BOTH a grounded conductor and a neutral conductor. It extends the neutral point to the load. It would be easy if they are always the same, but they aren't. While much is an opinion the wire in question is serving more as the neutral than the grounded wire in this case.Then give me an example of a Grounded Conductor!
Huh? Can you explain a little better?In regards to multi wire branch circuits other circuits/ loads do not have their own dedicated neutral going back to the neutral buss but instead may be spliced at a junction box with all these paralleled loads coming from ONE neutral.
It doesn’t make sense in this case above or if a standard non MWBC from one single phase breaker terminates to a junction box where multiple paralleled liads have a hot and a neutral but then terminate coming back to a common (not individual) neutral as the NEC seems to require?
Going based on NEC a neutral is derived from the midpoint of transformer secondary windings not taking into account the amperes flowing through it in relation to the line circuit(s)Huh? Can you explain a little better?
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Ignoring the NEC definition, a neutral can only exist in a MWBC, two conductor circuits are simply series circuits.