Alwayslearningelec
Senior Member
- Location
- NJ
- Occupation
- Estimator
Guess this pretty clear dedicated neutrals are required?
Dedicated Neutrals
- Thread starter Alwayslearningelec
- Start date
- Location
- New Jersey
- Occupation
- Journeyman Electrician
- Location
- New Jersey
- Occupation
- Journeyman Electrician
Yes according to the note a separate neutral for each circuit would be required.
A Grounded Conductor. A system or circuit conductor that is intentionally grounded!
- Location
- New Jersey
- Occupation
- Journeyman Electrician
You stated that a 2 wire circuit with an ungrounded conductor and a neutral conductor would not contain a neutral. That is incorrect.
Then give me an example of a Grounded Conductor!
- Location
- New Jersey
- Occupation
- Journeyman Electrician
Since it is not connected to the neutral point how about a corner grounded 3 wire Delta?
Good one!
Alwayslearningelec
Senior Member
- Location
- NJ
- Occupation
- Estimator
A grounded conductor(which is a neutral) and equipment grounding conductor are different, correct? I do know that but just confirming..lol
A homerun pipe with several circuits only needs to have ONE EGC, if not using the conduit as a EGC?
Short answer, yes (The grounded conductor = neutral can get more complicated but we will keep it simple)
YES (unless you have isolated grounding requirement)
jaggedben
Senior Member
- Location
- Northern California
- Occupation
- Solar and Energy Storage Installer
I actually don't think it's as clear as it could be. A multi-wire branch circuit is considered one circuit in the NEC in some instances and multiple circuits in others. If the intention of the note is to prohibit multi-wire branch circuits then it should say exactly that, or something equivalent such as "All branch circuits shall be 2-wire circuits with one ungrounded conductor and one neutral conductor." Otherwise I can claim that an MWBC is one circuit and that circuit has a dedicated neutral. So I'm not 100% what the intent of the note is, just taking the most reasonable guess.
(FWIW, I don't care if they say 'neutral' or 'grounded' if, as is almost always the case, the wiring system has a grounded neutral and that is clear in other specs.)
- Location
- New Jersey
- Occupation
- Journeyman Electrician
I don't see how a "dedicated neutral conductor" can be anything but a neutral for every circuit meaning no MWBC's. Not the best choice of words but the meaning is there. If MWBC's were permitted then the wording would not be needed.
Like jaggedben says, an MWBC is a single circuit, not just by the NEC definition but in it's physics. The grounded conductor of a two wire circuit is not a neutral except per the NEC definition.
- Location
- New Jersey
- Occupation
- Journeyman Electrician
I'm just saying that no one should look at the note that is in the OP and assume anything other than that no MWBC's are allowed. Although jaggedben is correct around here when someone uses the term dedicated neutral it means no MWBC's. It would have been clearer if they simply said no MWBC's but engineers are known to butcher electrical terms, first thing that comes to mind is what you mentioned in post #8 the word ground.
Jpflex
Electrician big leagues
- Location
- Victorville
- Occupation
- Electrician commercial and residential
In regards to multi wire branch circuits other circuits/ loads do not have their own dedicated neutral going back to the neutral buss but instead may be spliced at a junction box with all these paralleled loads coming from ONE neutral.
It doesn’t make sense in this case above or if a standard non MWBC from one single phase breaker terminates to a junction box where multiple paralleled liads have a hot and a neutral but then terminate coming back to a common (not individual) neutral as the NEC seems to require?
Strathead
Senior Member
- Location
- Ocala, Florida, USA
- Occupation
- Electrician/Estimator/Project Manager/Superintendent
Come on, the conductor in question is BOTH a grounded conductor and a neutral conductor. It extends the neutral point to the load. It would be easy if they are always the same, but they aren't. While much is an opinion the wire in question is serving more as the neutral than the grounded wire in this case.
Huh? Can you explain a little better?
Ignoring the NEC definition, a neutral can only exist in a MWBC, two conductor circuits are simply series circuits.
Jpflex
Electrician big leagues
- Location
- Victorville
- Occupation
- Electrician commercial and residential
Going based on NEC a neutral is derived from the midpoint of transformer secondary windings not taking into account the amperes flowing through it in relation to the line circuit(s)
However, the schematic above makes sense but as of now there seems to be ambiguity in neutral circuits since it can be referred to in so many different applications.
What I was saying was that the NEC code made me think it was asking for each load to have its own hot line conductor and its own neutral return wire but if you parallel other loads from this single line and neutral (such as “daisy chained” receptacles) each load/circuit doesn’t truly have its own “neutral” as the code confusingly seems to apply requirement to?