Power out and generator hookup.

[qcroanoke]

Bad storm rolled through last night. Lots of wind and down trees.
Daughter called this morning saying power was out and could I bring their generator.
Well. I have a 4w/30 amp cord with male/female ends I could have used to hook it up for the whole house but it would have been illegal because there's no interlock for it. So I just ran cords to fridge and a couple table lamps.
Guess Who came by!
The poco!
They busted a guy up on the hill and made him disconnect and said next time the police will be involved!
I wasn't there but I'm sure glad I didn't do the backfeed the dryer breaker and turn off the main thing!

 

[LarryFine]

How far away? I have a friend in Fairfield who said hers was out last night and still out this morning.

 

[qcroanoke]

How far away? I have a friend in Fairfield who said hers was out last night and still out this morning.

I'm in Roanoke. They're saying a tornado touched down ln Salem which is about 10 miles from me.

 

[LarryFine]

I'm in Roanoke. They're saying a tornado touched down ln Salem which is about 10 miles from me.

I know where you are. I just was wondering how far from you the outage was. Fairfield is an hour from you.

 

[qcroanoke]

I know where you are. I just was wondering how far from you the outage was. Fairfield is an hour from you.

Sorry. I guess you were asking where my daughter was.....went right over my head...... shes here too.

 

[Seven-Delta-FortyOne]

I understand why they would do that. Life-threatening situation for the linemen, because some Jackalope doesn't want to hook it up properly.

 

[hillbilly1]

Many years ago our local poco had a lineman killed when he picked up what he thought was a dead line. Never heard if they prosecuted the individual that used a suicide cord, and didn’t turn off the main.

 

[qcroanoke]

Many years ago our local poco had a lineman killed when he picked up what he thought was a dead line. Never heard if they prosecuted the individual that used a suicide cord, and didn’t turn off the main.

I can't see how a portable (10 KW or less) generator can backfeed the grid without immediately shutting down from the overload. But I just hook them up. I don't design or calculate them.
But I will not connect it in an unsafe manner.

 

[infinity]

I can't see how a portable (10 KW or less) generator can backfeed the grid without immediately shutting down from the overload

I agree and I think that it's pretty much a myth that the thing would be energized for more than a few seconds. Theoretically someone could be injured in that short amount of time or if the drop to the house were damaged and separated from the grid. That could remain energized.

 

[Seven-Delta-FortyOne]

I think depending on where the house with the backfeed was located, vis-a-vis where the line went down, it could happen.

Suppose it was a house where the line was down two houses over, and one was vacant and one wasn't using much power, I could see it back-feeding that section and the generator not stalling.

 

[hillbilly1]

I can't see how a portable (10 KW or less) generator can backfeed the grid without immediately shutting down from the overload. But I just hook them up. I don't design or calculate them.
But I will not connect it in an unsafe manner.

If the line is broken, you’re not back feeding the whole grid. Just just what is past the break. It made the newspaper, so it wasn’t an urban legend.

 

[Jpflex]

I understand why they would do that. Life-threatening situation for the linemen, because some Jackalope doesn't want to hook it up properly.

In the op’s case isn’t it more about the fact that poco linemen expect power to be off rather than just the lack of switch disconnect? Even with a switch disconnect installed power will still be back fed into the lines when the linemen expect power to be off?

 

[Birken Vogt]

Many years ago our local poco had a lineman killed when he picked up what he thought was a dead line. Never heard if they prosecuted the individual that used a suicide cord, and didn’t turn off the main.

There must be more to the story, because every lineman treats every wire as if it could have power. Not only from a generator, but backfeed from another direction, induction, could be any number of ways it bites you.

 

[qcroanoke]

In the op’s case isn’t it more about the fact that poco linemen expect power to be off rather than just the lack of switch disconnect? Even with a switch disconnect installed power will still be back fed into the lines when the linemen expect power to be off?

If you don't have a transfer switch or interlock installed to prevent back feeding the grid it's illegal and dangerous.
Our situation was everything was hooked up with cords and there was no connection to the house wiring. "safe"
The house up on the hill (and I'm speculating here) the guy had his generator connected back into his power panel with the main breaker off and was feeding his whole house. but without a transfer switch or interlock installed to prevent it someone could have switched the main back on and sent power out on the grid and possibly hurting someone . or if utility was back on utility and generator would have butted heads and I'll take utility in that fight.
So they shut him down.

 

[kwired]

Threating to bring police was a scare tactic and something not likely to happen. What are they going to do other than ask you to comply with POCO request? Yes this can be dangerous situation but average person isn't going to understand details of this either. Most POCO's safety procedures anymore say it isn't dead if it doesn't have bonding jumpers installed.

If the storm damage isolates you from everyone else then the risk to linemen does go up. If damage is further upstream and many neighbors are still interconnected - you will be trying to feed those other services if you happen to back feed into utility. Your generator won't be able to handle that. That likely just trips breaker on your generator.

If you are supplying voltage into grid but are lucky enough it isn't overloading your generator, your generator may see damage when the utility power is restored as it is very likely not going to be in phase with the utility.

 

[Knightryder12]

If you don't have a transfer switch or interlock installed to prevent back feeding the grid it's illegal and dangerous.
Our situation was everything was hooked up with cords and there was no connection to the house wiring. "safe"
The house up on the hill (and I'm speculating here) the guy had his generator connected back into his power panel with the main breaker off and was feeding his whole house. but without a transfer switch or interlock installed to prevent it someone could have switched the main back on and sent power out on the grid and possibly hurting someone . or if utility was back on utility and generator would have butted heads and I'll take utility in that fight.
So they shut him down.

Could you not just turn off the panel main and back fed the house from the dryer recep.?

 

[kwired]

If you don't have a transfer switch or interlock installed to prevent back feeding the grid it's illegal and dangerous.
Our situation was everything was hooked up with cords and there was no connection to the house wiring. "safe"
The house up on the hill (and I'm speculating here) the guy had his generator connected back into his power panel with the main breaker off and was feeding his whole house. but without a transfer switch or interlock installed to prevent it someone could have switched the main back on and sent power out on the grid and possibly hurting someone . or if utility was back on utility and generator would have butted heads and I'll take utility in that fight.
So they shut him down.

Illegal as in if NEC is adopted into law it is a violation of NEC. Nothing the police dept is likely going to get involved with though. Now if there is an altercation between POCO employees and some homeowner they may respond to that but in general are not qualified to enforce NEC.

 

[frofro19]

How far away? I have a friend in Fairfield who said hers was out last night and still out this morning.

I'm near Lexington and a lot of customers lost power as well. I have installed several generators in the Fairfield area as well. They seem to loose power a lot.

 

[LarryFine]

Could you not just turn off the panel main and back fed the house from the dryer recep.?

You can, but definitely shouldn't. That's exactly what we're discussing here.

It must be physically impossible to back-feed, intentionally or accidentally.

A properly-installed transfer switch or other mechanism accomplishes that.

 

[hillbilly1]

There must be more to the story, because every lineman treats every wire as if it could have power. Not only from a generator, but backfeed from another direction, induction, could be any number of ways it bites you.

Supposed to……