AFCI Locations….

[Seven-Delta-FortyOne]

In dwelling units, they are NOT required in garages, attics, crawl spaces, bathrooms, outdoors, and home offices. Nor are they required on circuits over 20 amps.

In dormitories, they ARE required in bathrooms.

AFCI protection is required to protect the entire branch circuit, not just the outlet or receptacle, like GFCI protection.

Kind of shows up the lie that is AFCI regulations. If it was really that important, and did anything, it would be required on ALL branch circuits.

Are attic branch circuits magically immune to arc faults? Or outdoor branch circuits, etc?

 

[rc/retired]

Are attic branch circuits magically immune to arc faults? Or outdoor branch circuits, etc?

Yes, duh

Ron

 

[electrofelon]

Yeah its all a complete scam and make zero logical sense. At first it was only bedrooms. So I could have every other non AFCI branch circuit pass thru the bedroom walls and no problem there assuming these things work so great? The NFPA and CMP's have forever severely tarnished their integrity and credibility with this fiasco, using us as beta testers for these unproven and ridiculous things.

 

[hillbilly1]

Yeah its all a complete scam and make zero logical sense. At first it was only bedrooms. So I could have every other non AFCI branch circuit pass thru the bedroom walls and no problem there assuming these things work so great? The NFPA and CMP's have forever severely tarnished their integrity and credibility with this fiasco, using us as beta testers for these unproven and ridiculous things.

You can thank Eaton, a lot of the code is written by manufacturers. They made a product very few would buy. How do you sell more? Make it a requirement.

 

[Eddie702]

Yeah its all a complete scam and make zero logical sense. At first it was only bedrooms. So I could have every other non AFCI branch circuit pass thru the bedroom walls and no problem there assuming these things work so great? The NFPA and CMP's have forever severely tarnished their integrity and credibility with this fiasco, using us as beta testers for these unproven and ridiculous things.

agree 100%

 

[ramsy]

In dwelling units, they are NOT required in garages, attics, crawl spaces, bathrooms, outdoors, and home offices.

Do dwelling plans differentiate home offices from other rooms ?

 

[rc/retired]

Do dwelling plans differentiate home offices from other rooms ?

They could, however, I believe AFCI protection is required in home offices.

Ron

 

[electrofelon]

Okay but a serious non-complaining question: has any reason or justification been provided for why the aforementioned locations do not require afci (yes I'm too lazy and don't care enough to look through the proposals and comments)?

 

[ramsy]

AFCI protection is required to protect the entire branch circuit, not just the outlet or receptacle, like GFCI protection.

Just like GFCI's, the requirements are deliberately scattered around in different articles of the code.

There are other AFCI sections that override 210.12 requirements, and keep the fuse box pure Thermo-Magnetic.

Just what the doctor ordered for general contractor laborers, which may have difficulty reading listed instructions.

 

[Seven-Delta-FortyOne]

Do dwelling plans differentiate home offices from other rooms ?

Good question.

I have seen plans and/or built/worked on residential structures that would have a room drawn as an office, and therefore window egress requirements would not apply.

Same with top floor “observation” rooms, popular along the coast. Would that be more like “attic”, or more like “recreation room”?

There is always the nebulous “and similar rooms” provision.

Personally, if I was bidding it, I would just bid it with AFCI. Not worth the hassle to squabble over a $50 breaker.

 

[ramsy]

Okay but a serious non-complaining question: has any reason or justification been provided for why the aforementioned locations do not require afci (yes I'm too lazy and don't care enough to look through the proposals and comments)?

Don't make proposals, or pay attention to code panel rulings, but have noticed AFCI's were recently removed in some places.

While each code cycle expanded the occupancy type for AFCI's, and increased the voltage for GFCI's, the 2023 NEC code making panels started kicking AFCI's down the road.

2023 NEC 210.52(C)(2)
"..provisions shall be provided at the island or peninsula for future addition of a receptacle outlet.."

Where builders are off the hook for outlet wiring, the next guy only needs a full-size bus stab for the circuit. No longer requiring builders to install AFCI's, shifts liability to occupants for outlets missing AFCI's.

 

[ramsy]

Same with top floor “observation” rooms, popular along the coast. Would that be more like “attic”, or more like “recreation room”?

If any of those rooms are balconies, decks, or arguably not intended for indoor occupancy, or "similar rooms."

Not worth the hassle to squabble over a $50 breaker.

Or sharing an AFCI lighting circuit with other required rooms.

 

[ramsy]

I have seen plans and/or built/worked on residential structures that would have a room drawn as an office, and therefore window egress requirements would not apply.

Thanks for sharing that. Are they trading window egress for exit signs & EM lights ?

There is always the nebulous “and similar rooms” provision.

For "similar rooms' that border the exterior, AFCI switches can tap outdoor circuit capacity.

 

[marmathsen]

It seems like it would be more clear if they stated that AFCI is required EVERYWHERE in a dwelling, then have a short list of exceptions where it's not.

I don't have the definitive knowledge to say if they shouldn't be required. But I know they are a royal pain in my butt.

Rob G - Seattle

 

[Seven-Delta-FortyOne]

Thanks for sharing that. Are they trading window egress for exit signs & EM lights ?

For "similar rooms' that border the exterior, AFCI switches can tap outdoor circuit capacity.

Exit signs and emergency lighting is not currently required in residential buildings in California.

 

[ramsy]

don't have the definitive knowledge to say if they shouldn't be required.

No knowledge needed to join developer efforts that amended out AFCI's.

However, while AFCI adoption persists, the exceptions, equipment with less callbacks, and building permits accumulated between AHJ's, perpetuate a profitable advantage through specialization.

But I know they are a royal pain in my butt.

As the saying goes, "One man's trash is another man's treasure," especially if it keeps you out of my playground.

 

[shortcircuit2]

In the Massachusetts Electrical Code, AFCI is required for ALL 15 & 20 ampere branch circuits in a dwelling...well except the fire alarm system branch circuit.

 

[kwired]

You can thank Eaton, a lot of the code is written by manufacturers. They made a product very few would buy. How do you sell more? Make it a requirement.

You have to remember this all started out with a reasonable request I believe by CPSC to develop a device that detects arcing faults and would open the circuit should it detect one.

After their time and money invested in R and D the first generation AFCI's is what they ended up with and they of course weren't going to be happy with it being an optional thing as very few would purchase it. They put as much or even more time and money into pushing information to the code making panels ever since to convince them it is a good thing to have in the code, even though the product does have it's problems.

The problem is there is no organization willing to spend enough time and money to petition the CMP the other way on this. Time and money spent by the manufacturers promoting it is an investment with a pretty decent return to them.

 

[kwired]

In dwelling units, they are NOT required in garages, attics, crawl spaces, bathrooms, outdoors, and home offices. Nor are they required on circuits over 20 amps.

In dormitories, they ARE required in bathrooms.

AFCI protection is required to protect the entire branch circuit, not just the outlet or receptacle, like GFCI protection.

Kind of shows up the lie that is AFCI regulations. If it was really that important, and did anything, it would be required on ALL branch circuits.

Are attic branch circuits magically immune to arc faults? Or outdoor branch circuits, etc?

They started out with just dwelling bedrooms, then added some things here and there at times. I'd bet they are still working on getting it required for everything at some point.

Same manufacturers are big players in GFCI protection as well, look what requirements they have had added in recent codes - more places where 2 pole GFCI's are basically the only current option as well as places that need three pole GFCI's. Sure there is GFCI receptacles but I've never seen one that could take the place of 2 and 3 pole breaker GFCI's. I also feel the number of incidents involving most those situations isn't really enough to justify the requirements.

Seen many compromised EGC's on 5-15 cord caps that I feel there is good justification for many the GFCI requirements involving those. I don't know if I ever seen a missing grounding pin on a 30, 50, 60 amp cord cap. If so it about has to be an intentional act to remove it compared to some the cheap 5-15's that come off pretty easily sometimes.

 

[ramsy]

never seen one that could take the place of 2 and 3 pole breakers

Point-of-use resets at existing kitchen MWBC's can replace 2-Pole breakers, until molested by remodel outlets .

incidents involving most those situations isn't really enough to justify the requirements.

Construction defect is the predictable incident, where 2-Pole xFCI breakers may trip up DIY & remodel outlets that molest the wiring.

Unless they remove the breakers, 2-Pole xFCI may help protect equipment from remodel monkeys.