Banned panels and breakers

[BHastings]

I am a contractor in CA and we just these lists of banned electrical panels and breakers from a condo HOA.
First carrier gave this list:




The second carrier gave this:

"As long as you are reviewing the building equipment, these are the circuit breakers with high failure rates:

Federal Pacific Breakers/Stab-Lok
GTE/Sylvania products (some)
ITE/Seimens/Bulldog Pushmatic
Zinsco, including Zinsco compatible breakers such as Kearney

It is also important to confirm that your structure also does not have the following:
Non-pigtailed aluminum wiring
Square D Panels

There is no need to talk about FPE at all.

The same with small frame Zinsco breakers.

Now Zinsco did not make their own large frame breakers, there is a lot of switch gear and meter distribution panels with GE breakers. I don’t think these were ever part of investigations into Zinsco’s issues. I don’t think a Zinsco placard on one of these sections of gear should make that assembly bad.

Going into old buildings and pulling out old gear with new will 98% of the time never fit in the old electrical rooms.

I have not seen issues with Bulldog products other than they often don’t like to reset, but never from a failure to trip.

But if you are now going to ban:
ITE Siemans
Challenger
Square D

I was shocked to see Square D make this list.

This is the 6th HOA or property management group that has come to us in the last 4 months concerning both residential and commercial properties.

We are left with:
Eaton gear, panels, and breakers.

Old Westinghouse gear.

Leviton panels and breakers.

Small regional independent manufacturers?

Your feed back is greatly appreciated.

 

[electrofelon]

Why on Earth is square D on the list?? I mean I am actually not a fan of square D but not due to a reliability or quality reason.

Also something like challenger, we have had some Challenger breakers burn up, but as long as the bussing isn't damaged, why not just replace all the breakers with the new? That's what we did. That spec's probably written by people who don't really know what they're talking about.

 

[electrofelon]

The square D thing must be a mistake. Ok, both times I ran across a P-frame breaker (1200A frame) circa 1979, the A pole would not open, but that's the only chronic or repetitive issue I recall having or even hearing about.

 

[roger]

I would let the manufacturers (SQ D and Siemens) know, they might want to battle this for themselves.

 

[Birken Vogt]

Insurance company knows nothing. Obviously if Square D is not allowed that eliminates about 50% of houses that have square D something or other.

I suppose Square D and Siemens companies need to have a chat with the insurers, since they are still actively in the field.

 

[jaggedben]

Just remove all circuit breakers and panels from the building. Then you can't go wrong.

 

[electrofelon]

Just remove all circuit breakers and panels from the building. Then you can't go wrong.

Yeah, cite Edison, didn't he say AC stuff was dangerous?

 

[jaggedben]

I jest, but there is literally no panelboard manufacturer that isn't wrapped up in their lists somehow. (Eaton BR is basically Challenger.) Well, ok, Leviton, but the irony is that they don't yet have enough of a track record for many of us to consider their product as trustworthy.

 

[curt swartz]

Sounds about right for California.

The state says natural gas is very bad so we must convert to 100% electric.

Insurance companies will not insure buildings that have electrical power connected.

 

[LarryFine]

It used to be that insurance companies made money by providing insurance.

Now it seems like they make more money by denying insurance.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

It used to be that insurance companies made money by providing insurance.

Now it seems like they make more money by denying insurance.

Some insurance companies will not cover your home if you have K&T wiring or aluminum wiring. The trick is not to mention it when you are buying the home.

One prospective buyer told his insurance company and they wouldn't cover him with the aluminum wiring. The same house was bought by another person who never said a word about the aluminum and the house is covered ----unless they have a disclaimer hidden in the contract.

 

[BHastings]

I think in this order but I could be wrong
Sylvania bought the rights to Zinsco as they were on the verge of having their listing pulled
Challenger bought Sylvania and sold off Zinsco connection
Challenger bought CrouseHinds
Eaton bought Challenger and then Cutler Hammer

Hard to keep track of and the mergers/acquisitions/sell-offs

 

[BHastings]

As far as Square D the only issues I’ve see are with the old XO block frame breakers. I don’t think seen one in the field in the last 30 years.

 

[curt swartz]

I think in this order but I could be wrong
Sylvania bought the rights to Zinsco as they were on the verge of having their listing pulled
Challenger bought Sylvania and sold off Zinsco connection
Challenger bought CrouseHinds
Eaton bought Challenger and then Cutler Hammer

Hard to keep track of and the mergers/acquisitions/sell-offs

Siemens purchased the Crouse Hinds distribution line. They renamed the line back to Murray, its name prior to Crouse Hinds. Siemens discontinued all of the Crouse Hinds products and just marketed their Siemens line under the Murray name.

 

[Little Bill]

I think in this order but I could be wrong
Sylvania bought the rights to Zinsco as they were on the verge of having their listing pulled
Challenger bought Sylvania and sold off Zinsco connection
Challenger bought CrouseHinds
Eaton bought Challenger and then Cutler Hammer

Hard to keep track of and the mergers/acquisitions/sell-offs

I think it was Murray that bought Crouse Hinds, and Siemens bought Murray.

ETA: Curt beat me to it while was typing!

 

[norcal]

I think in this order but I could be wrong
Sylvania bought the rights to Zinsco as they were on the verge of having their listing pulled
Challenger bought Sylvania and sold off Zinsco connection
Challenger bought CrouseHinds
Eaton bought Challenger and then Cutler Hammer

Hard to keep track of and the mergers/acquisitions/sell-offs

GTE bought Zinsco in 1973, renamed it Sylvania, ran it until the early '80's sold it & became Challenger, who later bought FPE, Westinghouse bought Challenger, had Westinghouse breakers listed for Challenger, adopted Challenger panels for BR panels which had been rebranded from Bryant, to Westinghouse, buys the CBS TV network & decides to sell all their industrial lines, like electrical, & Thermo King transport referigeration, Eaton buys their electrical, folds it into Cutler-Hammer who they have owned since 1978, they have rebranded everything as Eaton since.

 

[BHastings]

I did find this on SQD issue

Schneider Electric™ Recalls 1.4 Million Electrical Panels Due to Thermal Burn and Fire Hazards

Schneider Electric is directly contacting all known retailers, distributors, homeowners, and any other individuals that purchased or installed the recalled product. All purchasers and installers should immediately contact Schneider Electric to arrange to have the recalled load centers inspected...

www.cpsc.gov

I know QO in residential is not popular on the west cost, almost all Homeline series, QO in some customs but mostly in government spec and commercial projects.

 

[BHastings]

GTE bought Zinsco in 1973, renamed it Sylvania, ran it until the early '80's sold it & became Challenger, who later bought FPE, Westinghouse bought Challenger, had Westinghouse breakers listed for Challenger, adopted Challenger panels for BR panels which had been rebranded from Bryant, to Westinghouse, buys the CBS TV network & decides to sell all their industrial lines, like electrical, & Thermo King transport referigeration, Eaton buys their electrical, folds it into Cutler-Hammer who they have owned since 1978, they have rebranded everything as Eaton since.

It is all a colluded mess. Didn’t GE have Westinghouse breakers at one point? Short lived trade piece?

 

[CoolWill]

Mod note: let's not bash any particular state.

 

[hillbilly1]

The only Square D I’ve seen problems with were fusible switches. I can’t remember if it was the QMB, or which models it was. But it was mainly due to lack of maintenance and operation. The grease would dry up, and sometimes the blades would not open.