General requirements 110.26

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pulsar69

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Inspector says, can't install c.b. panel in space 36:×24"" per 110.26(A)(1)
I say can do per 110.26(A)(2),panel is recessed in stud space in long demension,
depth is 24", door into space opens outward..110.26(A)(1) applies to panels
That require adjustment,examination, servicing or maintenance, which doesn't apply to my panel
 
pulsar69 said:
Inspector says, can't install c.b. panel in space 36:×24"" per 110.26(A)(1)
I say can do per 110.26(A)(2),panel is recessed in stud space in long demension,
depth is 24", door into space opens outward..110.26(A)(1) applies to panels
That require adjustment,examination, servicing or maintenance, which doesn't apply to my panel
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It applies to all panels.
 
don_resqcapt19 said:
It applies to all panels.
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Mcc's with contactors that have n.o.,n.c.contacts,vsd's, timers, phase protectors, gear that has frequency, and volt/ amps meter adjustments, these are the types of panels 110.26(A)(1) is talking about as they are likely to require adjustment, or servicing etc. Panels in our homes and small business's may not be looked at for decades.Some of these panels are blocked by washing machines or dryers, or work benches, or stock and product, so it is obvious these panels are not likely to require adjustment or servicing..Commentary in the handbook right after WORKING SPACE says " minimum working clearances are not required if the equipment is not likely to require adjustment or servicing".
 
pulsar69 said:
Mcc's with contactors that have n.o.,n.c.contacts,vsd's, timers, phase protectors, gear that has frequency, and volt/ amps meter adjustments, these are the types of panels 110.26(A)(1) is talking about as they are likely to require adjustment, or servicing etc. Panels in our homes and small business's may not be looked at for decades.Some of these panels are blocked by washing machines or dryers, or work benches, or stock and product, so it is obvious these panels are not likely to require adjustment or servicing..Commentary in the handbook right after WORKING SPACE says " minimum working clearances are not required if the equipment is not likely to require adjustment or servicing".
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Besides working space requirements panels with OCPD's are required to be readily accessible so nothing is permitted in front of them.

240.24(A) Accessibility.
Circuit breakers and switches containing fuses shall be readily accessible and installed so that the center of the grip of the operating handle of the switch or circuit breaker, when in its highest position, is not more than 2.0 m (6 ft 7 in.) above the floor or working platform, unless one of the following applies:
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Accessible, Readily (Readily Accessible).
Capable of being reached quickly for operation, renewal, or inspections without requiring those to whom ready access is requisite to take actions such as to use tools (other than keys), to climb over or under, to remove obstacles, or to resort to portable ladders, and so forth.
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pulsar69 said:
Mcc's with contactors that have n.o.,n.c.contacts,vsd's, timers, phase protectors, gear that has frequency, and volt/ amps meter adjustments, these are the types of panels 110.26(A)(1) is talking about as they are likely to require adjustment, or servicing etc. Panels in our homes and small business's may not be looked at for decades.Some of these panels are blocked by washing machines or dryers, or work benches, or stock and product, so it is obvious these panels are not likely to require adjustment or servicing..Commentary in the handbook right after WORKING SPACE says " minimum working clearances are not required if the equipment is not likely to require adjustment or servicing".
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No such electrical equipment exists. Remember that checking for voltage is examination and examination requires 110.26(Z) work spaces.

The addition of things that block access to a panel after inspection, will not be enforced, but any item that blocks access at the time of the inspection will result in a red tag by all of the inspectors around here.

In a workplace such things may be enforced by the insurance company when they do their routine inspections of by OSHA, but they rarely show up unless there has been an incident.

That being said the language in this section is poor and too expansive. It needs to have a list of equipment like is found in 110.26(E). Maybe with some additions, but it does need limitation.
 
don_resqcapt19 said:
That being said the language in this section is poor and too expansive. It needs to have a list of equipment like is found in 110.26(E). Maybe with some additions, but it does need limitation.
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We've been saying that around here for years. Can someone convince the CMP that the existing language is crap?
 
infinity said:
We've been saying that around here for years. Can someone convince the CMP that the existing language is crap?
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There have been a number of PIs to limit or more clearly spell out the application of 110.26(A), but they have all been rejected. Not sure what it would take to convince that this needs to be changed.
 
If the panel is in the back wall of a closet that is 36" wide and 24" deep, and the door opens outward and has at least 30" clear width, and that door clear width fully subsumes the 24" width of the panel, and the door is tall enough, then with the door open it seems to me that the requisite clear space is provided.

Cheers, Wayne
 
don_resqcapt19 said:
No such electrical equipment exists. Remember that checking for voltage is examination and examination requires 110.26(Z) work spaces.
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It says your a retired electrician and no disrespect but I have to disagree I can see more and more exceptions to 110.26 now with the energized indicators, as its less likely for equipment to be opened while energized as were not even allowed to.
When working on 480V circuits (or over some voltage I forget over 240V line to line) there are facilities here that all got the same new safety rule a few years back, we are no longer allowed to open up a 480V enclosure or panel while its energized, it has to be de-energized then opened. You can get an exception in writing.
 
pipe_bender said:
It says your a retired electrician and no disrespect but I have to disagree I can see more and more exceptions to 110.26 now with the energized indicators, as its less likely for equipment to be opened while energized as were not even allowed to.
When working on 480V circuits (or over some voltage I forget over 240V line to line) there are facilities here that all got the same new safety rule a few years back, we are no longer allowed to open up a 480V enclosure or panel while its energized, it has to be de-energized then opened. You can get an exception in writing.
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That is not an NEC rule though it is a safety rule from other sources. NEC is relatively unchanged on content of 110.26 over many years now. Even after these hot work rules started becoming more common.

Even if you do have a "hot work" conditions permit it is probably a good idea to still have a certain amount of clear working space around energized components.
 
pipe_bender said:
It says your a retired electrician and no disrespect but I have to disagree I can see more and more exceptions to 110.26 now with the energized indicators, as its less likely for equipment to be opened while energized as were not even allowed to.
When working on 480V circuits (or over some voltage I forget over 240V line to line) there are facilities here that all got the same new safety rule a few years back, we are no longer allowed to open up a 480V enclosure or panel while its energized, it has to be de-energized then opened. You can get an exception in writing.
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It does not matter what you are permitted or not permitted to do by safety or OSHA regulations. Troubleshooting and testing for absence or voltage are both "examination" under the rule in 110.26 and that happens at some point with pretty much every piece of electrical equipment. This is even more common outside of controlled industrial occupancies like you are talking about. Much of my time was in such a facility, and they had all of those rules and more. However in the overall electrical industry that is not commonplace.

So unless you have something like the Grace Absence of Voltage indicator, you still have to verify the absence of voltage and that is energized work under the electrical safety rules.
This testing is the thing that triggers 110.26 for most applications.
 
don_resqcapt19 said:
There have been a number of PIs to limit or more clearly spell out the application of 110.26(A), but they have all been rejected. Not sure what it would take to convince that this needs to be changed.
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If you 're saying c.b. panels that may be checked once or twice in 40 or 50 years puts them in the class of "likely required"examination that's laughable.The fact that this exam happened only twice means exactly the opposite, that is they are not likely required to be tested. How did "Grace Absence of Voltage" get into this. I'm not trying to land a rocket on a movable platform in the pacific. I just want to see if i can fit a c.b. panel in a 36"x24" space.At least 75-80% of panels that i see in homes and small businesses are inaccessible, i've seen panels in kitchen cabinets. over the toilet in bathrooms,and one time i had to open a trap door in the kitchen, slide down a dirt embankment and examine a panel on my knees.Again these are panels that are not likely to "require" adjustment or examination.I would agree that the article may be poorly written and too expansive, but you can't lean on that because it doesn't support your position.I hate to pile on but if you look at 110.26[A][1][a] and the commentary after 110.26[A][2] you'll see that working space can be diminished again under certain conditions....I believe i have clearly made the case that this panel can legally be installed in this space, and i want to thank everyone who participated in this discussion. This forum that Mike has given us is a great place to learn.The breath and depth of this trade is truly amazing.
 
pulsar69 said:
If you 're saying c.b. panels that may be checked once or twice in 40 or 50 years puts them in the class of "likely required"examination that's laughable.The fact that this exam happened only twice means exactly the opposite, that is they are not likely required to be tested. How did "Grace Absence of Voltage" get into this. I'm not trying to land a rocket on a movable platform in the pacific. I just want to see if i can fit a c.b. panel in a 36"x24" space.At least 75-80% of panels that i see in homes and small businesses are inaccessible, i've seen panels in kitchen cabinets. over the toilet in bathrooms,and one time i had to open a trap door in the kitchen, slide down a dirt embankment and examine a panel on my knees.Again these are panels that are not likely to "require" adjustment or examination.I would agree that the article may be poorly written and too expansive, but you can't lean on that because it doesn't support your position.I hate to pile on but if you look at 110.26[A][1][a] and the commentary after 110.26[A][2] you'll see that working space can be diminished again under certain conditions....I believe i have clearly made the case that this panel can legally be installed in this space, and i want to thank everyone who participated in this discussion. This forum that Mike has given us is a great place to learn.The breath and depth of this trade is truly amazing.
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All of those issues would require remedy to meet code compliance. I understand you disagree with the way the code is written. Saying "I don't like it so I won't follow it" doesn't change the code.

Inspector called it out as a safety violation because it is. You got caught with someone who thinks a panel should have a safe working space. God forbid someone looks out for the next electricians' safety. Or the customers when that is the only circuit disconnect. You should ask him to swing by some of those other jobs you went to because if an inspector saw those panels, I doubt they would have cleared the inspection as passing. Especially the bathroom. That is probably the most common known noncompliance in the trade.

A panelboard requires examination to see if the breaker is tripped and to read the schedule.. Any equipment with a breaker requires examination to know if the circuit is energized, off or tripped and thus requires a working space.
 
pulsar69 said:
If you 're saying c.b. panels that may be checked once or twice in 40 or 50 years puts them in the class of "likely required"examination that's laughable.The fact that this exam happened only twice means exactly the opposite, that is they are not likely required to be tested. How did "Grace Absence of Voltage" get into this. I'm not trying to land a rocket on a movable platform in the pacific. I just want to see if i can fit a c.b. panel in a 36"x24" space.At least 75-80% of panels that i see in homes and small businesses are inaccessible, i've seen panels in kitchen cabinets. over the toilet in bathrooms,and one time i had to open a trap door in the kitchen, slide down a dirt embankment and examine a panel on my knees.Again these are panels that are not likely to "require" adjustment or examination.I would agree that the article may be poorly written and too expansive, but you can't lean on that because it doesn't support your position.I hate to pile on but if you look at 110.26[A][1][a] and the commentary after 110.26[A][2] you'll see that working space can be diminished again under certain conditions....I believe i have clearly made the case that this panel can legally be installed in this space, and i want to thank everyone who participated in this discussion. This forum that Mike has given us is a great place to learn.The breath and depth of this trade is truly amazing.
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Take it up with your AHJ...any obstruction within the 110.26(A) workspace gets a red tag from most inspectors.

The Grace device is in reference to post #10 where it was said they can't work on 480 volt panels live, however, you have to verify the absence of voltage and without the Grace tester (the only one listed for the purpose) you have to suit up, open the cover and verify the absence of voltage.

You can pile on all you want, but you are 100% wrong.
 
don_resqcapt19 said:
You can pile on all you want, but you are 100% wrong.
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Unless, as per my reading of the OP, the required working space is clear when the door is open. Then the inspector is wrong to measure the working space while the door is closed, yes?

I agree that the OP is wrong about whether 110.26(A) applies to the panel.

Cheers, Wayne
 
wwhitney said:
Unless, as per my reading of the OP, the required working space is clear when the door is open. Then the inspector is wrong to measure the working space while the door is closed, yes?

I agree that the OP is wrong about whether 110.26(A) applies to the panel.

Cheers, Wayne
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In my mind a door means there is a frame and I have never seen a door opening 180% to provide more working space near electrical equipment.

36" wide wall. Panel is centered to the wall and this space is not a cloths closet, bathroom, etc.

distance to door opposite to panel is 24" and door opens out. Door is more than 30in wide. Panel door can open 90° or more.

Then Ya. I can see what your saying. Inspector should consider it. But I would also argue that if the space is that small, remove the door. It can't be used for storage or clothes and remain code compliant so there is no reason for the door at all. Thus meaning that space is probably designed to some type of use that is noncompliant and it shouldn't go there anyway.
 
Well given the fact that the inspector has the bigger hammer (leaving the fact that he is correct out of the equation) I think the OP is out of luck in his argument.
 
don_resqcapt19 said:
Take it up with your AHJ...any obstruction within the 110.26(A) workspace gets a red tag from most inspectors.

The Grace device is in reference to post #10 where it was said they can't work on 480 volt panels live, however, you have to verify the absence of voltage and without the Grace tester (the only one listed for the purpose) you have to suit up, open the cover and verify the absence of voltage.

You can pile on all you want, but you are 100% wrong.
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Hey cool thats the device I could not remember what it was called thanks for posting a link to it!
That made it unlikely the 480 panels will ever be opened while energized and as Infinity pointed out regardless of 110.26 we still have 240.24(A).
 
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