Recessed Lights

J

Jimmy7

Senior Member
Location
Boston, MA
Occupation
Electrician
I have a customer who wants some recessed lights replaced. Someone dropped the housings to refinish the wood ceiling and the housings got destroyed. In any case the housings are 5” shallow housings. I wasn’t going to install wafer lights because one fixture has three cables going to it, and I thought the wafer lights junction box would be too small. There are three lights, but one has two 14-2, and one 14-3 going to it (Drawing attached). I did not see a cubic inch on the junction box, so I measured the inside dimensions of the housing’s junction box which were 1.5 x 2.5 x 3.75 =14.0625. Two 14-2 and One 14-3 have wire fill of 16 cu in. Am I looking at this right? If so, what is the best way out of this? The owner wouldn’t want me cutting a junction box into the ceiling..
 

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So the can junction boxes are still in the ceiling? I might just rip the housing off the flex and use that to feed the new wafers.
 
CoolWill said:
So the can junction boxes are still in the ceiling? I might just rip the housing off the flex and use that to feed the new wafers.
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No, I bought the same cans and was going to just replace them until I realized the housing jb may be too small. These are old work style housings
 
If it's not getting inspected I wouldn't worry about.
And if it is I'd take my chances.
Jmo.
 
qcroanoke said:
If it's not getting inspected I wouldn't worry about.
And if it is I'd take my chances.
Jmo.
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It’s getting inspected, so I’m looking for a solution. Any ideas? I was wondering if another fixture would have a larger junction box that could fit in the hole I pulled the 5” housing out of
 
Dennis Alwon said:
If the fixture you are going to use is another recessed fixture then just use a jb that is reachable when the can is removed.
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I was thinking the same thing but unfortunate that is no longer permitted. The only code compliant solution is to find a fixture that will accept all three cables.

410.118 Access to Other Boxes.
Luminaires recessed in ceilings, floors, or walls shall not be used to access outlet, pull, or junction boxes or conduit bodies, unless the box or conduit body is an integral part of the listed luminaire.
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I'm curious what code section applies to the boxes that are part of a luminaire? I don't see anything in Article 314 that would require you to do a calculation.
 
Dennis Alwon said:
If the fixture you are going to use is another recessed fixture then just use a jb that is reachable when the can is
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infinity said:
I was thinking the same thing but unfortunate that is no longer permitted. The only code compliant solution is to find a fixture that will accept all three cables.



I'm curious what code section applies to the boxes that are part of a luminaire? I don't see anything in Article 314 that would require you to do a calculation.
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The cables fit prior, does box fill apply to a recessed fixture’s junction box? There is no cubic inch stamped inside
 

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Jimmy7 said:
The cables fit prior, does box fill apply to a recessed fixture’s junction box? There is no cubic inch stamped inside
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The number of conductors is usually part of the manufacturer's instructions or a label on the box itself. As I stated prior I don't see anything in Article 314 that would require you to measure the box and do a calculation.
 
infinity said:
The number of conductors is usually part of the manufacture's instructions or a label on the box itself. As I stated prior I don't see anything in Article 314 that would require you to measure the box and do a calculation.
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I never noticed this before but the label inside states 6 no 12 awg branch circuit conductors. How many #14’s, and do I count the ground wire in this number?
 

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Is anyone aware of any type of wafer or old work recessed light that can handle two 14-2 and one 14-3? I can cut the hoke larger than 5” if need be.
 
infinity said:
The number of conductors is usually part of the manufacturer's instructions or a label on the box itself. As I stated prior I don't see anything in Article 314 that would require you to measure the box and do a calculation.
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What about 314.16(A)? "The volume of a wiring enclosure (box) shall be the total volume of the assembled sections .."
Wafer or can light junction box is pretty much a simple square box (one section) so if the box is not marked I'd just measure it.

If I were the AHJ I would ignore 410.118 and prefer a 4S deep box mounted in a way that is just as or more accessible as the can jbox over a stuffed little wafer jbox where the lid does not even close.
 
infinity said:
If you cannot find a suitable fixture I would just run a new feed to the switch.
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I’ll try that. I’ll have to kill the existing feed I know it originates from a MWBC somewhere in the house. Do you guys just tape the ends of abandoned wires, or what do you do?
 
Jimmy7 said:
I’ll try that. I’ll have to kill the existing feed I know it originates from a MWBC somewhere in the house. Do you guys just tape the ends of abandoned wires, or what do you do?
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If it's completed abandoned (removed from a junction box, panel, etc.) I would just cut it off on both ends and bury it.
 
Jimmy7 said:
It’s getting inspected, so I’m looking for a solution. Any ideas? I was wondering if another fixture would have a larger junction box that could fit in the hole I pulled the 5” housing out of
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Are you pulling a permit for three recessed lights?
Our inspectors would throw rocks at us for something this simple and small!
 
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