lighting outlet

Status
Not open for further replies.
P

pjg

Member
I recently failed a final inspection on a new home due to the fact that we installed a ceiling fan w/o a light kit in a bedroom, this fan is controlled by a switch. My thought is that we installed a lighting outlet ,as required, I can not find a code reference that requires a light fixture to be installed, any thoughts?

thanks, pjg
 
B

bkludecke

Senior Member
Location
Big Bear Lake, CA
Occupation
Retired Electrical Contractor
Interesting. I think it's an AHJ interpratation thing. Ask yourself "is this a hill I want to die on?". Why not just install a cheapo light kit to make the inspector happy? I've fought awfully hard for lesser things so there's no wrong answer.
 
al hildenbrand

al hildenbrand

Senior Member
Location
Minnesota
Occupation
Electrical Contractor, Electrical Consultant, Electrical Engineer
2005 NEC Article 100 Definitions

Lighting Outlet. An outlet intended for the direct connection of a lampholder, a luminaire (lighting fixture), or a pendant cord terminating in a lampholder.
Click to expand...
210.70(A)(1) says the exception is a receptacle outlet. The definition of receptacle outlet, as the definition of lighting outlet, doesn't mention paddlefans.
 
celtic

celtic

Senior Member
Location
NJ
pjg said:
I can not find a code reference that requires a light fixture to be installed...
Click to expand...

The question is not:
Do I have to install a switched outlet?

The question is:
Am I required to install a light on the switched outlet?

My answer:
NO
 
7

77401

Banned
Location
South of the Border in Houston, Texas
celtic said:
The question is:
Am I required to install a light on the switched outlet?

My answer:
NO
Click to expand...

I agree, how many times do the custom MacMansions get finaled, before the chandelier or wall sconces arrive?

But on the other hand...
Why not just install a cheapo light kit to make the inspector happy? Single bulb Light kits are $3 @ HDepot
 
S

stew

Senior Member
Location
federal way,washington
so instead you put in a switched outlet to meet this requirement. In the inspectors logic it seems then he would require a lamp to be plugged in? No lit kit required, a swithched outlet only and that is what you have. It sis entirely up to the customer as to whether or not the want the lite. IMHO
 
infinity

infinity

Moderator
Staff member
Location
New Jersey
Occupation
Journeyman Electrician
I agree with the others. No light kit is required if you have a switched receptacle. Maybe the HO doesn't want a light kit and prefers lamps. And not all light kits are cheap. A Casablanca light kit can cost well over $100.
 
Jim W in Tampa

Jim W in Tampa

Senior Member
Location
Tampa Florida
You are 100% right unless you have local amendments.Are you sure you want to push this ? Inspectors can get you back.He needs educated then perhaps he will back off.
 
P

pjg

Member
as far as the cheapo light kit , the home owner of this not very cheapo house does't want a light on the fan. the homeowner did write a letter to the inspector that he did not want to have the light installed-problem solved on this one(at the request of the inspector)

The code section cited reads "intended for " not "shall be installed".
 
al hildenbrand

al hildenbrand

Senior Member
Location
Minnesota
Occupation
Electrical Contractor, Electrical Consultant, Electrical Engineer
pjg said:
The code section cited reads "intended for " not "shall be installed".
Click to expand...
Well, that's just it. . .in my mind. When the room is presented to the AHJ for a "final", the state of the work is "done".

I think the work is "done" as intended. So walking in to do a final and finding the only switch in the room controlling only a paddlefan with no light kit, I would find a switch controlling a motor.

210.70 says "lighting outlet" or "receptacle".

210.70 does not say "switched outlet".
 
JohnE

JohnE

Senior Member
Location
Milford, MA
To me, you are code compliant. You installed an outlet intended for a light. Owner chose not to install it. If you installed a blank plate instead of the fan, it would still be compliant to me. Even with fan installed, the outlet is there for someone to use if they choose. Just like someone may not choose to plug a lamp into a switched receptacle.

With that said, I don't know why HO would not want some sort of switched light in their room.
 
al hildenbrand

al hildenbrand

Senior Member
Location
Minnesota
Occupation
Electrical Contractor, Electrical Consultant, Electrical Engineer
j_erickson said:
With that said, I don't know why HO would not want some sort of switched light in their room.
Click to expand...
:)

PJG,

This hasn't been asked about the room you are posting about. . .

Is the only switch for the room controlling only the outlet at which the paddlefan is mounted? That is, are there any other switches controlling other outlets in the room?
 
P

pjg

Member
the room is a bedroom with no other switches for the "lighting outlet" there are no switched "receptacles" either. I have no idea why the HO doesn't want a light or a switched outlet.
 
infinity

infinity

Moderator
Staff member
Location
New Jersey
Occupation
Journeyman Electrician
pjg said:
the room is a bedroom with no other switches for the "lighting outlet" there are no switched "receptacles" either. I have no idea why the HO doesn't want a light or a switched outlet.
Click to expand...

If the room has no switch controlled light or no switch controlled receptacle then the inspector is correct. Doesn't really matter what the HO wants at this point since their request is not code compliant. Either add a light kit or add a switch controlled receptacle.
 
Jim W in Tampa

Jim W in Tampa

Senior Member
Location
Tampa Florida
infinity said:
If the room has no switch controlled light or no switch controlled receptacle then the inspector is correct. Doesn't really matter what the HO wants at this point since their request is not code compliant. Either add a light kit or add a switch controlled receptacle.
Click to expand...

Wrong,it says light OUTLET and he has that.Nothing says light fixture.The fan as long as it can except a light kit meets the requirement.He has a light outlet (box) thats all he needs.I will say that the owners letter does more damage than good.Saying i wont install a light kit could cause an argument.But it still could take one someday.Personally i would want the light some way.
 
infinity

infinity

Moderator
Staff member
Location
New Jersey
Occupation
Journeyman Electrician
Jim W in Tampa said:
Wrong,it says light OUTLET and he has that.Nothing says light fixture.The fan as long as it can except a light kit meets the requirement.He has a light outlet (box) thats all he needs.I will say that the owners letter does more damage than good.Saying i wont install a light kit could cause an argument.But it still could take one someday.Personally i would want the light some way.
Click to expand...

My book says a "wall switch controlled lighting outlet". I don't see how a fan without a light is a lighting outlet.
 
roger

roger

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Fl
Occupation
Retired Electrician
Easy fix if there is a neutral in the switch box, just install a switch/receptacle combination device and switch the receptacle. If there is only a feed and switch leg, well, nevermind.

Roger
 
celtic

celtic

Senior Member
Location
NJ
infinity said:
My book says a "wall switch controlled lighting outlet". I don't see how a fan without a light is a lighting outlet.
Click to expand...

We are installing a "dummy plate" (Arlington makes it, I have no produt ## at this time)on the DR lighting outlet...no fixture, no problem with inspector.
 
celtic

celtic

Senior Member
Location
NJ
roger said:
Easy fix if there is a neutral in the switch box, just install a switch/receptacle combination device and switch the receptacle.
Click to expand...
How do fix what isn't broken?
The requirement has been met already.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top