CEE Rebar Stub Out? I don't think so.

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iwire

iwire

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For those that do not know CEE is short for Concrete Encased Electrode.

In my opinion it is a NEC violation to stub the rebar out of the foundation for connection to the GEC.

The facts as I see them.

250.52(A)(3) defines what a CEE is. That description requires that the CEE be surrounded by at least 2" of concrete.

Given that definition the rebar that is stubbed out is not a CEE. It is simply a steel conductor attached to the the CEE so in reality the stubbed out section is a GEC.

250.62 prohibits using steel as a GEC.

In my opinion and due to 250.64(A) the only legal way to connect to a rebar CEE is with a copper conductor connected to the rebar in the area defined by 250.52(A)(3).

All you 'stubbers' are in violation of the NEC. :grin:
 
Dennis Alwon

Dennis Alwon

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I have heard of people stubbing the rebar out below grade. I believe I read somewhere where rebar will corrode with direct ground contact. Is that correct?
 
mdshunk

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Right here.
iwire said:
It did not cross my mind for a moment that my thread was really going to change anyones methods. :grin:
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Well, the foundation is often poured and the rebar stubbed out by the concrete guy before an electrician is even hired to wire the place. Sometimes the GC will have a particular electrician in mind (me) but never let me know that I'm to wire the place until it's my "turn". Surprise. You just sorta work with what you've got, in that situation. Seems like lately the upturned rebar is at the furtherest place in the basement from my panel location, so they're paying dear for that oversight.
 
Dennis Alwon

Dennis Alwon

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It boils down to educating and working closely with my GC. So far I have been lucky and have gotten my CEE in on new construction.
 
iwire

iwire

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mdshunk said:
Well, the foundation is often poured and the rebar stubbed out by the concrete guy before an electrician is even hired to wire the place.
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Here the State made clear to the GCs that they will own that mis-step if they let that happen.

The State even pointed out that the GC could hire an EC just to do the CEE if they where not ready to put out the entire electrical contract.

I will try to scan and post the letter from the state. :smile:
 
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iwire

iwire

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Here is the handout I got in a code update.

Page 1

CEE_Page_1.jpg


Page 2

CEE_Page_2.jpg
 
chris kennedy

chris kennedy

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iwire said:
:grin:

He is right and I knew the letter flies in the face of my opinion but it does not change my opinion. :)
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FWIW, here we have been making a special trip and we get steel bond inspections. Been a couple years now.

What I didn't know is that you can hit the steel anywhere as long as the tied pieces are 20'. We have always hit a 20' bar at the bottom of the footer. Many times this equals an extra 10' or so of #4.
 
iwire

iwire

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chris kennedy said:
What I didn't know is that you can hit the steel anywhere as long as the tied pieces are 20'. We have always hit a 20' bar at the bottom of the footer.
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I know that is how it's done but IMO the NEC does not support that either.

The steel that you catching is not the CEE so your using the steel as the GEC until it gets to the bottom of the footing.

Earlier Marc said:

Marc said:
Seems like lately the upturned rebar is at the furtherest place in the basement from my panel location, so they're paying dear for that oversight.
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Could Marc grab three 20' sections of scrap rebar, some of the bailing wire, tie the three sections together and onto the stub out, run the rebar underground and over to his panel?
 
M

mpd

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i agree with iwire that a stub out is a violation, all it takes is a little coordination between the GC & EC
 
Dennis Alwon

Dennis Alwon

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iwire said:
Could Marc grab three 20' sections of scrap rebar, some of the bailing wire, tie the three sections together and onto the stub out, run the rebar underground and over to his panel?
Click to expand...

Come on bob you not that is not the same as 20 being tied together in a footing. Of course you can't do that but the stub out is an extension of the 20 feet not an add on.
 
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