GFCI's do not need an EGC (moved from another thread)

[quogueelectric]

Another possibility... hopefully this one would be obvious, but you never know -- is it possible there is no grounding wire, and that is why the tester isn't working?

A lot of people here believe you dont need a ground for the gfci to work. I have 35+ long years in the buisness and I do not believe they work properly without a ground. All of the manufacturers pets will jump out and defend them for some reason all who have never been shocked by one of these wonderful products.

Moderators note; these posts have been relocated to this thread from here, this will explain what is being refered to when "this thread" or "7 pages" is used in a post.

 

[iwire]

A lot of people here believe you dont need a ground for the gfci to work.

And they would be correct.

I have 35+ long years in the buisness and I do not believe they work properly without a ground.

Sorry you are mistaken.

All of the manufacturers pets will jump out and defend them for some reason

I am no ones pet. :roll:

all who have never been shocked by one of these wonderful products.

Ground or no ground you will feel a good shock from a GFCI protected circuit because the GFCI can not even start to open the circuit until after current starts to flow.

 

[ultramegabob]

And they would be correct.




Sorry you are mistaken.



I am no ones pet. :roll:



Ground or no ground you will feel a good shock from a GFCI protected circuit because the GFCI can not even start to open the circuit until after current starts to flow.

Ditto ...

 

[quogueelectric]

And they would be correct.




Sorry you are mistaken.



I am no ones pet. :roll:



Ground or no ground you will feel a good shock from a GFCI protected circuit because the GFCI can not even start to open the circuit until after current starts to flow.

So we agree to disagree.

 

[roger]

A lot of people here believe you dont need a ground for the gfci to work.

And they are the ones who understand how a GFCI works know why an EGC is not needed.

Roger

 

[iwire]

So we agree to disagree.

No, I don't agree to disagree.

This is not a subject open to interpretation, you are simply wrong that a GFCI needs a ground to operate.

That may seem rude but the subject is an important one and I don't want any newbies going away thinking GFCIs need a grounding means to operate.

 

[quogueelectric]

And they are the ones who understand how a GFCI works know why an EGC is not needed.

Roger

You have 7 pages of people complaining how they dont work right and you continually ignore this and say oh they just work fine I dont know what you people are talking about. So you are saying that all gfcis work perfectly every time only when I install them and that I must not understand them . That makes perfect sence. now go back and explain to the others why thier products work fine and they must be pushing the button wrong.

 

[iwire]

You have 7 pages of people complaining how they dont work right and you continually ignore this and say oh they just work fine I dont know what you people are talking about.

This thread has to do with defective GFCIs, it has nothing to do with a ground being present or not.

Wired with a ground or not broken GFCIs do not work. :wink:

But saying a GFCI requires a grounding means to operate is as false as saying this .....

.... needs a grounding means to operate.

 

[roger]

You have 7 pages of people complaining how they dont work right and you continually ignore this and say oh they just work fine I dont know what you people are talking about. So you are saying that all gfcis work perfectly every time only when I install them and that I must not understand them . That makes perfect sence. now go back and explain to the others why thier products work fine and they must be pushing the button wrong.

Well, obviously you haven't read the thread, it is not about GFCI's with or without an EGC, it is about bogus merchandise and questionable suppliers.

Instead of posting just to post you should read the thread first to see if you have anything to offer

Roger

 

[roger]

No, I don't agree to disagree.

This is not a subject open to interpretation, you are simply wrong that a GFCI needs a ground to operate.

That may seem rude but the subject is an important one and I don't want any newbies going away thinking GFCIs need a grounding means to operate.

And I agree whole heartedly!

For anyone new to this forum or the trade, GFCI's do not need an Equipment Grounding Conductor to work, end of story.

Roger

 

[quogueelectric]

Well, obviously you haven't read the thread, it is not about GFCI's with or without an EGC, it is about bogus merchandise and questionable suppliers.

Instead of posting just to post you should read the thread first to see if you have anything to offer

Roger

That is the ony life threatening problem that I have encountered with gfci receptacles I am sorry if it doesnt bother you. I guess you arent interested in posts that dont fit your design of the website. If you dont want me to offer any input just say the word and I will be gone. This is my experience and you dont seem to believe it for some reason and I dont care that you dont believe it because I dont want it to happen to anyone else. Maybe you represent the manufacturers I really dont know but every body elses problems with gfcis seem to be OK with you. I read the thread until I got to the post that I wanted to contribute to which was another person who felt that en egc was important to the working of the gfci. Why dont you go attack him?

 

[ultramegabob]

from the Pass and Seymour website

from the Pass and Seymour website

http://www.passandseymour.com/knowh...faqcategory=Ground+Fault+Circuit+Interrupters


Q: Does a GFCI require a ground conductor to function properly?

A: No. A GFCI only measure current leakage between the hot and neutral conductors. A ground is not required to function properly. All Pass & Seymour/Legrand GFCI include peel & stick labels to identify GFCI's that are installed where an equipment ground is not present. Keep in mind, there are millions of homes in the United States that were wired without a ground conductor. GFCI's can be installed in all of these house and work perfectly.

------------------------------------------------------------------------


I think if anyone would know the answer to this question the manufacture would....

 

[iwire]

That is the ony life threatening problem that I have encountered with gfci receptacles I am sorry if it doesnt bother you. I guess you arent interested in posts that dont fit your design of the website. If you dont want me to offer any input just say the word and I will be gone. This is my experience and you dont seem to believe it for some reason and I dont care that you dont believe it because I dont want it to happen to anyone else. Maybe you represent the manufacturers I really dont know but every body elses problems with gfcis seem to be OK with you. I read the thread until I got to the post that I wanted to contribute to which was another person who felt that en egc was important to the working of the gfci. Why dont you go attack him?

You are really sticking your hoof in your mouth, I think maybe the farmer slipped you something in the feed.

I suggest taking a break, come back tomorrow with a clear head and re-read this thread from the start.

 

[roger]

That is the ony life threatening problem that I have encountered with gfci receptacles I am sorry if it doesnt bother you. I guess you arent interested in posts that dont fit your design of the website. If you dont want me to offer any input just say the word and I will be gone. This is my experience and you dont seem to believe it for some reason and I dont care that you dont believe it because I dont want it to happen to anyone else. Maybe you represent the manufacturers I really dont know but every body elses problems with gfcis seem to be OK with you. I read the thread until I got to the post that I wanted to contribute to which was another person who felt that en egc was important to the working of the gfci. Why dont you go attack him?

Yeah, whatever you want to believe is up to you, those that understand how a GFCI works know that an EGC has no bearing on whether a GFCI will work as designed and they also know that if you are across the ungrounded and grounded conductor of a GFCI protected circuit with or without an EGC, you will be shocked or electrocuted, but once again, this has nothing to do with this thread.

If you want to start another thread on your belief go for it, but you have already argued this same point before and were shown with substantiation that you were wrong.

Roger

 

[quogueelectric]

http://www.passandseymour.com/knowh...faqcategory=Ground+Fault+Circuit+Interrupters


Q: Does a GFCI require a ground conductor to function properly?

A: No. A GFCI only measure current leakage between the hot and neutral conductors. A ground is not required to function properly. All Pass & Seymour/Legrand GFCI include peel & stick labels to identify GFCI's that are installed where an equipment ground is not present. Keep in mind, there are millions of homes in the United States that were wired without a ground conductor. GFCI's can be installed in all of these house and work perfectly.

------------------------------------------------------------------------


I think if anyone would know the answer to this question the manufacture would....

Is it possible that my specific instance was a defective gfci device or do you just enjoy clubbing people who dissagree? You never even offered that as a possibility. Secondly a manufacturer is never going to admit liability EVER.

 

[mdshunk]

Hey Quogue, the GFCI doesn't care where that 6ma is going. If it's going through it's own EGC or through your body to a cement slab or into the cosmos. If 6 milliamps is "missing", it's going to trip.

 

[ultramegabob]

Im not clubbing anyone....

 

[iwire]

do you just enjoy clubbing people who dissagree?

Nobody is clubbing you.

 

[quogueelectric]

Hey Quogue, the GFCI doesn't care where that 6ma is going. If it's going through it's own EGC or through your body to a cement slab or into the cosmos. If 6 milliamps is "missing", it's going to trip.

I was an electronics tech in college I fully understand where the current goes.

 

[bikeindy]

I was an electronics tech in college I fully understand where the current goes.

It doesn't change the fact that you are misrepresenting how a GFCI device operates. If it needs a EGC to operate explain to us why you replace receptacles with out grounding with a GFCI receptacle for personal protection per NEC.