Building Integrated PV

[sketchy]

We're looking to start installing solar shingles of some kind. I'm just starting to research different brands and I'm wondering if anyone else has some insight into them. It doesn't appear there's any reference to BIPV in the 2023 NEC, unless I'm missing something. Thoughts?

 

[jaggedben]

I'm against the idea in general. If the company that makes or installs the solar shingles goes out of business or just has an awful service department you'll have no other options for service or repair. Can't call a regular roofer for your rook leak or a regular solar installer for your solar system issue.

As far as code, I think they rewrote 690.12 a little in 2017 to define the array boundary in a way that applies equally to BIPV or not. I don't think it's particularly meaningful distinction code wise, except maybe for fire pathways (not in the NEC).

 

[sketchy]

I'm against the idea in general. If the company that makes or installs the solar shingles goes out of business or just has an awful service department you'll have no other options for service or repair. Can't call a regular roofer for your rook leak or a regular solar installer for your solar system issue.

You may be against it but this is the future. Roofs are already here and windows and glass isn't far behind. Tesla, GAF and Certain Teed aren't going anywhere but you're right, they may stop making these products someday. But for now we're going to dip our toes and see what bites. I also agree servicing these systems will be difficult and costly.

One of the big questions that will come up is where's the line drawn between roofer and electrician?

 

[jaggedben]

You may be against it but this is the future.

Or it's just a fad that has already failed a couple times. We'll see. You asked for thoughts.

...

One of the big questions that will come up is where's the line drawn between roofer and electrician?

Exactly. You'll have to find someone who is qualified as both. And probably for the particular product.

 

[ggunn]

You may be against it but this is the future.

Color me skeptical.

 

[don_resqcapt19]

This will be a good fight between the license requirements. Does the licensed roofer install them or the licensed electrician?

 

[jaggedben]

This will be a good fight between the license requirements. Does the licensed roofer install them or the licensed electrician?

Arguably the installer has to possess both licenses, or be a general contractor.

 

[electrofelon]

Might depend on the system. The GAF system has all the connections in a channel at the end and they can be made up later. I guess the roofer is still physically installing the shingles/module even if he's not making electrical connections though.

 

[gadfly56]

Might depend on the system. The GAF system has all the connections in a channel at the end and they can be made up later. I guess the roofer is still physically installing the shingles/module even if he's not making electrical connections though.

Who carries the warranty? Terrific opportunity for much finger pointing.

 

[electrofelon]

Who carries the warranty? Terrific opportunity for much finger pointing.

I have no clue, I have no experience with these types of systems.

 

[Joe.B]

I wonder what insurance companies think of these. Are there Class A solar shingles available?

 

[jaggedben]

I wonder what insurance companies think of these. Are there Class A solar shingles available?

Yes. None of the companies mentioned are dumb enough not to get their product Class A rated.

 

[BandGap1.1eV]

BIPV has the odd status of combining two building products and getting the worst of both worlds. With solar shingles you get an under-performing PV system due to heat buildup, and it's niche so you can't hot swap it with another manufacturer like you can with traditional PV. You also get a roof that's only good for ~20 years instead of the 30+ you can get with quality architectural shingles or 50+ you can get with a metal roof.

There's a reason it has not taken off yet.

 

[pv_n00b]

Residential BIPV is a pure aesthetics play. Some high net worth individuals are willing to pay a lot more to get the look. It's a small market, good luck.
The 2023 NEC does not have any special requirements for BIPV. There was a carve out in previous versions for BIPV around RSD requirements.

 

[solarken]

Some of these products (Tesla roof) also have limited geographic market. I can't imagine them being installed in Minnesota or any other region that gets snow. With conventional PV, you can leave a landing area for snow above the eave so it doesn't hurt someone.
I had one poor guy call me a few years ago that had solar shingles installed but no inverter, asking to get it working.

 

[Hv&Lv]

You may be against it but this is the future. Roofs are already here and windows and glass isn't far behind. Tesla, GAF and Certain Teed aren't going anywhere but you're right, they may stop making these products someday. But for now we're going to dip our toes and see what bites. I also agree servicing these systems will be difficult and costly.

One of the big questions that will come up is where's the line drawn between roofer and electrician?

I do all the solar commissioning for our company. I have yet to have someone tell me it was a good deal after it’s installed. 99% tell me they wouldn’t do it again.
30k-60k for a 5-8kW solar system that will take about 25-30 years to pay for itself isn’t smart money in my book.

The salesmen make them sound like they are the best thing going. They say that you can export and get paid, offset your usage, your power bill could go to 0, etc. once the moneys paid and it’s time for it to work it’s never like the salesmen stated.

With so many companies going under, restructuring, going bankrupt and changing names, it’s not a market I want to get into personally.

BUT!
I hope it works for you and it’s everything that was promised.
I would love to hear from you 6 months after it’s installed.

Don’t put it on your roof please.
If you want BIPV, build a carport.

Just my thoughts..

 

[PWDickerson]

I had a customer that really wanted the Tesla Solar Roof. It was early days for the product, and Tesla wouldn't release pricing to us until we went through the training. The roofing company that was going to partner with us had to go through the training as well. When I finally leaned enough about installation methods and pricing to give the customer a bid, and it was about twice the cost of a conventional system. I was glad when she said it was too expensive. My biggest concern was how address problems down the road. Are those shingles still going to be available 10 years later when something goes wrong? What will it be like to dismantle the roof in order to track down a ground fault? Roof leaks on a shingle roof are notoriously difficult to find, and a tricky leak may require an entire roof surface to be re-shingled. How does that work?

Please report back in a year and let us know how it went!

 

[ggunn]

If you want BIPV, build a carport.

This. A carport structure gives you access to the underside of the array after the fact and isn't part of a residence envelope. IMO, PV shingles are an example of something that tries to do two things at once and ends up doing neither of them very well.

 

[GoldDigger]

This. A carport structure gives you access to the underside of the array after the fact and isn't part of a residence envelope. IMO, PV shingles are an example of something that tries to do two things at once and ends up doing neither of them very well.

In addition, I would expect the active material in a solar shingle to operate at a higher temperature than in a conventional array that also has air cooling from below.

 

[BandGap1.1eV]

IMO, PV shingles are an example of something that tries to do two things at once and ends up doing neither of them very well.

100%. In this case in particular, when you combine two products, you get the worst of both worlds. An inefficient PV array with limited support for future troubleshooting/repair, and a 15 year roof when you could have installed a 50 year roof.