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Equipment Bonding Jumper verses Equipment Grounding Conductor

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    #16
    Originally posted by electricalist View Post
    I hope my comment wasnt taken as trash talking.. It wasnt. I was trying to show the humor of parallel paths and the irony that the language reads like they are parallels.
    I didn't think it was trash talking, I liked the word play.
    Prority in understanding I think starts with nec. No disrespect to any person in this trade, yet there are many 10 yr or more guys who don't fully grasp what to bond where to bond how to bond including myself. If it wasn't for you guys and my 2014 handbook I'd be sent to the concrete crew.
    But you went out seeking more and better information. That's the key. Too many electricians don't. We should all be trying to elevate the level of our trade. Those that don't want to are welcome to do honest work in another trade and I won't look down my nose at them, just get out of mine.
    Without examples all things are open to interpretation. The only other way to know is to ask the author,be the author,or through inspection which is even more an interpretation factor....
    To the op good luck best wishes to the students
    I gets to be real fun when you can talk to an inspector about a correction and feel confident. I don't argue with my inspectors, but I do talk to them.
    If Billy Idol is on your playlist go reevaluate your life.

    Comment


      #17
      Originally posted by vergeront View Post
      Article 250 has always been a challenge to teach. Its kind of like bible studies; there are so many interpretations of the rulings, and then the exceptions to the rulings. Don't even get me started on the interpretations of the OSHA and 70E changes and rulings. I teach those as well.
      I want my electrical journeymen and apprentices as safe as possible that my bottom line.
      And all these rulings are just minimum requirements that's a grade "C"
      I love the history of the CMP please give me more of the background of the changes proposed and the history of our EGC and EBJ
      Thank you all for helping me out
      yours
      LV
      The Canadian Electrical Code replaced EGC with EBJ a number of years ago. Some of their instructors have told me that this change made it easier for them to get there students to understand the concept.

      As far as the history, the best way is to read the ROPs and ROCs, but they are extensive and you will spend a lot of time. You can go here and download or look at the ROPs and ROCs. Click on the code year you want to look at and then click on "Read the archived revision information".
      Don, Illinois
      (All code citations are 2017 unless otherwise noted)

      Comment


        #18
        EBJ verses EBC

        I thank the group for giving me and my electricians the history behind the EBJ and EBC
        Because these electricians look at the NEC as God's word...I wanted to have them see that the NEC is constantly a work in progress.
        The CMP as you clarified doesn't always see eye to eye and that is what my electricians needed to understand and see this.
        As long as they have the six basic grounding principles in place at the first point of entrance and at the separately derived systems personnel and property should be properly protected.
        Keep me informed of anything I might have left out in this thread.
        Thank you Mike Holt all of your wonderful powerpoint presentations of grounding verses bonding to make this job of understanding easier
        follower of your work since 1994

        Comment


          #19
          EBJ verses EBC

          I thank the group for giving me and my electricians the history behind the EBJ and EBC.
          Because these electricians look at the NEC as God's word...I wanted to have them see that the NEC is constantly a work in progress.
          The CMP as you clarified doesn't always see eye to eye and that is what my electricians needed to understand and see this.
          I hope none of us end up on the concrete crew.
          As long as they have the six basic grounding principles in place at the first point of entrance and at the separately derived systems personnel and property should be properly protected.
          Keep me informed of anything I might have left out in this thread.
          Thank you Mike Holt all of your wonderful powerpoint presentations of grounding verses bonding to make this job of understanding easier
          follower of your work since 1994

          Comment


            #20
            Originally posted by vergeront View Post
            I thank the group for giving me and my electricians the history behind the EBJ and EBC.
            Because these electricians look at the NEC as God's word...I wanted to have them see that the NEC is constantly a work in progress.
            The CMP as you clarified doesn't always see eye to eye and that is what my electricians needed to understand and see this.
            I hope none of us end up on the concrete crew.
            As long as they have the six basic grounding principles in place at the first point of entrance and at the separately derived systems personnel and property should be properly protected.
            Keep me informed of anything I might have left out in this thread.
            Thank you Mike Holt all of your wonderful powerpoint presentations of grounding verses bonding to make this job of understanding easier
            follower of your work since 1994
            The difference would be that then the discussion would be concrete vs cement or what is "grade" ?? No matter the trade there will be terminology 'discussions'
            At my age, I'm accustomed to restaurants asking me to pay in advance, but now my bank has started sending me their calendar one month at a time.

            Comment


              #21
              Originally posted by vergeront View Post
              I thank the group for giving me and my electricians the history behind the EBJ and EBC.
              Because these electricians look at the NEC as God's word...I wanted to have them see that the NEC is constantly a work in progress.
              The CMP as you clarified doesn't always see eye to eye and that is what my electricians needed to understand and see this.
              I hope none of us end up on the concrete crew.
              As long as they have the six basic grounding principles in place at the first point of entrance and at the separately derived systems personnel and property should be properly protected.
              Keep me informed of anything I might have left out in this thread.
              Thank you Mike Holt all of your wonderful powerpoint presentations of grounding verses bonding to make this job of understanding easier
              follower of your work since 1994
              I like your approach. Care to list your six basic principles?
              If Billy Idol is on your playlist go reevaluate your life.

              Comment


                #22
                Originally posted by ActionDave View Post
                I like your approach. Care to list your six basic principles?
                Yea a little reciprocation. Its like a hug but with knowledge.[emoji41]
                The hardest faults to clear are mine

                Comment


                  #23
                  Originally posted by augie47 View Post
                  The difference would be that then the discussion would be concrete vs cement or what is "grade" ?? No matter the trade there will be terminology 'discussions'
                  Cement is to concrete what flour is to bread.
                  If Billy Idol is on your playlist go reevaluate your life.

                  Comment


                    #24
                    And nothing is set in stone,,,stone is thinset into it.
                    The hardest faults to clear are mine

                    Comment


                      #25
                      The Equipment Grounding Conductor serves 2 distinct functions.

                      1. It connects all ungrounded metallic parts to the earth via the bond to the grounding electrode conductor at the service.
                      2. It a path for the ground fault to follow to the source, facilitating the opening of the overcurrent device.
                      (see the revised definition in Art 100 of the 2014 NEC, as well as the informational note following it.)

                      Most people associate it with #2.

                      I also believe it would serve better purpose to change the name to EBC, but there is still some resistance due to the above statement I have provided.
                      Instructor, Industry Advocate

                      Comment


                        #26
                        Six Principle parts to an Effective grounding system

                        I give the students at the beginning of the grounding and bonding class a very simple drawing I got from Ronald P. O' Riley from Electrical Grounding Book based on the 1999 NEC he used stick figures and simple diagrams to explain everything. Very simple but effective his diagram was of a service enclosure with a Buss Bar that had arrows to the Main Bonding, Grounded Conductor, Grounding Electrode Conductor, Equipment Grounding Conductor. I have added the grounding electrode and supply-side bonding jumper. So there are now six parts to the effective grounding system at the first point of entrance. I use this also for the separately derived system at the X0 of the transformer. I beg the forgiveness of anyone I may offend but I call this simple diagram the "G" spot of effect grounding. Ronald P. O'Riley called it the Bull's Eye for effective grounding.

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