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    Equipotential bonding in horse barn

    We recently roughed in a horse barn, concrete floor already poured and rubber mats installed over the concrete. what to do about inspector requesting equipotential bonding plane. unknown if steel in floor at this time. Will it be required if livestock insulated with the rubber matting in place?

    #2
    Originally posted by kpielectric@gmail.com View Post
    We recently roughed in a horse barn, concrete floor already poured and rubber mats installed over the concrete. what to do about inspector requesting equipotential bonding plane. unknown if steel in floor at this time. Will it be required if livestock insulated with the rubber matting in place?
    i looked at doing a high end horse barn a few years ago, and what i got
    from it was that dairy barn rules where what they wanted in place.

    i did the electrical design for the barn, got paid for that, and never did the install.

    this was the person who designed the barn... you might get some info here.....

    http://hotstable.com/
    ~New signature under construction.~
    ~~~~Please excuse the mess.~~~~

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      #3
      547.10 (A)(1) applies to indoor horse stalls with say electric heaters for water troughs & electrical outlets for appliance uses -- the concept is not based upon how many animals are intended for the building. The rubber mats may help but can you assure the inspector they will always be in place? cause he told me so your honor. Was this a new install and were you there to install a UFER?
      CircuitRyder --- Unfortunately not all good ideas are code enforceable.

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        #4
        Originally posted by mwm1752 View Post
        547.10 (A)(1) applies to indoor horse stalls with say electric heaters for water troughs & electrical outlets for appliance uses -- the concept is not based upon how many animals are intended for the building. The rubber mats may help but can you assure the inspector they will always be in place? cause he told me so your honor. Was this a new install and were you there to install a UFER?
        In relation to that section what is a confinement area?
        Rob

        Moderator

        All responses based on the 2017 NEC unless otherwise noted

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          #5
          (1) Indoors.
          Equipotential planes shall be installed in confinement areas with concrete floors where metallic equipment is located that may become energized and is accessible to livestock.
          Some don't read into what is said here and think you need equipotential plane everywhere, that is not what it says. Big key words "may become energized".

          If you have a complex assembly of metal gates, fences, etc. but have no electrical equipment in the vicinity to potentially energize them you don't have a problem. Put one electrically heated watering unit in the area though and now you may have a problem requiring equipotential bonding. Omit the concrete floor though and that changes everything again.

          Main equipment that usually produces a problem around horses is the watering equipment if electrically heated. They otherwise don't typically have much electric equipment that is as directly interactive with the horse as cattle or pigs might have.
          I live for today, I'm just a day behind.

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            #6
            Mike holt has a good video on equipotential plane
            [COLOR=#BBBBBB]https://youtu.be/pAs_FmdxXhQ[/COLOR]

            They say I shot a man named Gray and took his wife to Italy
            She inherited a million bucks and when she died it came to me
            I can't help it if I'm lucky

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              #7
              Paraphrasing: the scope of Article 547 states that the provisions of this article apply to areas where excessive dust and dust with water may accumulate. Would that apply to a small horse barn or stable?

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                #8
                Originally posted by RB1 View Post
                Paraphrasing: the scope of Article 547 states that the provisions of this article apply to areas where excessive dust and dust with water may accumulate. Would that apply to a small horse barn or stable?
                Hobby farms get different amounts or attention from AHJs compared to commercial ones so a trip to the inspector's office would be in order. I have seen them wired up with just UF.

                One things for sure, that stable will get dusty. Horses generate a tremendous amount of dust.
                If Billy Idol is on your playlist go reevaluate your life.

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                  #9
                  I do a fair amount of dairy work, in the freestall barns that have nothing more than lights in the ceiling and motorized curtains on the walls(no water trough heaters), we have the concrete contractor roll wire mesh out anywhere there is concrete the cows will stand on. At equally spaced intervals, say every 100-150' or so, I'll tail a #8 bare solid copper out and tie it to building steel on one side of the mesh with another #8 tailed out to hit the vertical support pipes for the metal lockups(stanchions or head catches) on the other side.

                  I'm sure every area is different, our inspector over here seems to take the equipotential plane pretty seriously.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by RB1 View Post
                    Paraphrasing: the scope of Article 547 states that the provisions of this article apply to areas where excessive dust and dust with water may accumulate. Would that apply to a small horse barn or stable?
                    Dry manure. hay, dirt, urine, oats, water trough, hair, are a few items in a horse stall which most the time are open to stable areas where storage of all sorts of product is. -- some even wash out stalls ( oh my)-- purpose is still so that there is no potential difference between surfaces and animals are not subject to voltage. excessive sound subjective your honor -- have you ever had farm animals? even one can be pretty messy inside a structure. as for cofinement? not all parts of a barn have to be wired per 547,
                    CircuitRyder --- Unfortunately not all good ideas are code enforceable.

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                      #11
                      Wire Mesh Idea

                      Originally posted by Cow View Post
                      I do a fair amount of dairy work, in the freestall barns that have nothing more than lights in the ceiling and motorized curtains on the walls(no water trough heaters), we have the concrete contractor roll wire mesh out anywhere there is concrete the cows will stand on. At equally spaced intervals, say every 100-150' or so, I'll tail a #8 bare solid copper out and tie it to building steel on one side of the mesh with another #8 tailed out to hit the vertical support pipes for the metal lockups(stanchions or head catches) on the other side.

                      I'm sure every area is different, our inspector over here seems to take the equipotential plane pretty seriously.

                      Really like this idea with the wire mesh - any idea what alloy you are using? I would think copper or something similar, but that would cost a fortune. Is it possible you are using just plain old stainless steel woven wire mesh like seen here and sold pretty cheap - http://www.bwire.com

                      Also - how big are the opening sizes in your wire mesh? 1/2"? less? ANy information would be great, as this is something I may talk to my guys about trying down the road.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Originally posted by markerblack View Post
                        Really like this idea with the wire mesh - any idea what alloy you are using? I would think copper or something similar, but that would cost a fortune. Is it possible you are using just plain old stainless steel woven wire mesh like seen here and sold pretty cheap - http://www.bwire.com

                        Also - how big are the opening sizes in your wire mesh? 1/2"? less? ANy information would be great, as this is something I may talk to my guys about trying down the road.
                        its just std mesh (WWM) used for concrete slabs, or a rebar mesh.
                        actual bonding is done with copper and approved fittings. i would typically "pigtail" out two bonding wires before concrete is poured over. have the tie inspected before concrete or take some good pictures.

                        ...and interesting, the MH video on post #6, says the bonding ties back to service gnd. bonding does not generally call for a tie to service gnd. but since i am a fan of such tie, and the use of earth rods, i like it that way.
                        Last edited by FionaZuppa; 07-13-16, 11:49 AM.

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                          #13
                          forgot to mention, not sure how NEC handles HELIX micro rebar as you cant actually bond to it, yet this product is much better than WWM in terms of enforcing strength, its also easier in application. i guess if you used HELIX (or the like, non metallic fibers are also used) then you would just lay some WWM on the ground before the pour, or buried under the prepped dirt before being compacted. steel WWM in dirt will eventually rust away, and copper in earth will also eventually oxidize to dust, but NEC does not dictate the materials used on the construction side, kinda starts at the wire used to bond, eg; #8 bare copper, etc.
                          Last edited by FionaZuppa; 07-13-16, 12:24 PM.

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