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    Why is it so hard to understand

    In the last few weeks I have run into two licensed electricians and a so called engineer (I pretty sure he's lying) that think parallel paths and loops are a problem in EGC's.

    I tried to explain to the self proclaimed engineer that multiple paths for fault clearing is not a problem and in fact desired, I pointed out that he is confusing this with current loops due to multiple bonding of the neutral and at that point, the proverbial "deer in the headlight look" appeared.

    I know we discuss this a lot here on the forum but, that should not be necessary for people with some basic theory and understanding of fault clearing paths.

    We have second year apprentices that understand this so go figure.

    Okay, I admit I was just venting.

    Roger
    Moderator

    #2
    I have one of those Engineers at work. This one is so far out of whack his basic information about common sense stuff is usually wrong

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G890A using Tapatalk

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      #3
      The hardest thing for me is that even after it is explained to them and they say they get it, they more often then not go right back to their old misunderstanding the next day. Ugh.

      I will be the first to admit that I came to this forum with fistfulls of misconceptions and incorrect interpretations, but I am willing to learn and appreciate the wisdom and experience of the members here.

      Sometimes I am bit thick headed and dense, but I usually get it finally. Some people are just all but unteachable IMO. Sad but true. And worse, some do not want to learn.

      My rant.
      [COLOR="blue"]"Electricity is really just organized lightning." George Carlin


      Derek[/COLOR]

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        #4
        I think jumper has it figured.

        I had similar afflictions as him. Over time I learned the basics of grounding and bonding. If I can learn this stuff out anybody can. I'm an ex concrete worker for crying out loud. But there's the rub......It's not hard to teach, it's not hard to learn, but it's impossible to teach somebody who doesn't want to learn.
        If Billy Idol is on your playlist go reevaluate your life.

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          #5
          Originally posted by alexanderlev74 View Post
          I have one of those Engineers at work. This one is so far out of whack his basic information about common sense stuff is usually wrong
          This is way too common of a problem and I don't mean this to be aimed at engineers, as I said in my first post, I think the guy I'm talking about is lying and somehow got his job by doing so.

          Welcome to the forums.

          Roger
          Moderator

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            #6
            Originally posted by roger View Post
            This is way too common of a problem and I don't mean this to be aimed at engineers, as I said in my first post, I think the guy I'm talking about is lying and somehow got his job by doing so.

            Welcome to the forums.

            Roger
            The problem I see is that many companies assign the title engineer to people that do not actually have a real degree or even enough experience and knowledge to be given the rank informally.

            I see the title/rank used pretty casually at times and it is frustrating.
            [COLOR="blue"]"Electricity is really just organized lightning." George Carlin


            Derek[/COLOR]

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              #7
              Originally posted by jumper View Post
              The problem I see is that many companies assign the title engineer to people that do not actually have a real degree or even enough experience and knowledge to be given the rank informally.
              I worked at a fitness club last week, the kid who cleans the pools and washes the windows is the 'engineer' that is his title.

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                #8
                Originally posted by iwire View Post
                I worked at a fitness club last week, the kid who cleans the pools and washes the windows is the 'engineer' that is his title.
                Yep, and the sixteen year old clerks at Radio Shack are A/V Sound Engineers.
                [COLOR="blue"]"Electricity is really just organized lightning." George Carlin


                Derek[/COLOR]

                Comment


                  #9
                  Originally posted by roger View Post
                  In the last few weeks I have run into two licensed electricians and a so called engineer (I pretty sure he's lying) that think parallel paths and loops are a problem in EGC's.

                  I tried to explain to the self proclaimed engineer that multiple paths for fault clearing is not a problem and in fact desired, I pointed out that he is confusing this with current loops due to multiple bonding of the neutral and at that point, the proverbial "deer in the headlight look" appeared.

                  I know we discuss this a lot here on the forum but, that should not be necessary for people with some basic theory and understanding of fault clearing paths.

                  We have second year apprentices that understand this so go figure.

                  Okay, I admit I was just venting.

                  Roger
                  i did a data center once where they stipulated the 500 mcm grounds be CADWELDED
                  to the ground bus.... mounted above the switchgear.... but it gets better....

                  the ground wires could not turn down onto the 1/4" x 4" x 6' bus, they had to turn UP.
                  i think this way, in the event of a fault, the electrons will drain back to earth.

                  for those who've done cadwelding, think about clamping the mold to a vertical bus bar,
                  with the wire pointing down, and firing a shot..... how fun.

                  the engineer was adamant that it be done in this fashion.
                  ~New signature under construction.~
                  ~~~~Please excuse the mess.~~~~

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                    #10
                    I cannot tell you how many electrical contractors I have educated about the purpose of the ground rod. They all think it is there in case the neutral fails.
                    They say I shot a man named Gray and took his wife to Italy
                    She inherited a million bucks and when she died it came to me
                    I can't help it if I'm lucky

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                      #11
                      Originally posted by Fulthrotl View Post
                      i did a data center once where they stipulated the 500 mcm grounds be CADWELDED
                      to the ground bus.... mounted above the switchgear.... but it gets better....

                      the ground wires could not turn down onto the 1/4" x 4" x 6' bus, they had to turn UP.
                      i think this way, in the event of a fault, the electrons will drain back to earth.

                      for those who've done cadwelding, think about clamping the mold to a vertical bus bar,
                      with the wire pointing down, and firing a shot..... how fun.

                      the engineer was adamant that it be done in this fashion.
                      While the concept of having to aim the wires down is odd, two things come to my mind. First, with the VS series Cadweld molds, I don't see where installing the grounds this way would be a problem. And second, lightning protection concerns itself with things like uphill routing of conductors and perhaps that "engineer" had LP on his brain.


                      I know what I don't know, and I know where to go to find it!

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                        #12
                        Originally posted by Dennis Alwon View Post
                        I cannot tell you how many electrical contractors I have educated about the purpose of the ground rod. They all think it is there in case the neutral fails.
                        I'm confused about the purpose of the ground rod as well. And I often find conflicting explanations. Can you give me a brief overview per your understanding?

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                          #13
                          Originally posted by Strathead View Post
                          While the concept of having to aim the wires down is odd, two things come to my mind. First, with the VS series Cadweld molds, I don't see where installing the grounds this way would be a problem. And second, lightning protection concerns itself with things like uphill routing of conductors and perhaps that "engineer" had LP on his brain.

                          for the life of me, i cannot picture a mold that would allow the wire to go up.
                          It depends on what the meaning of "is" is.

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                            #14
                            Originally posted by Carultch View Post
                            I'm confused about the purpose of the ground rod as well. And I often find conflicting explanations. Can you give me a brief overview per your understanding?
                            I would start by looking at 250.4
                            [COLOR="blue"]"Electricity is really just organized lightning." George Carlin


                            Derek[/COLOR]

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                              #15
                              Originally posted by mcclary's electrical View Post
                              for the life of me, i cannot picture a mold that would allow the wire to go up.
                              Sorry, I had a brain skip. I was thinking down this whole time. I agree with you that I am having a time picturing it, but I do think that Caddy has overcome this dilemma.


                              I know what I don't know, and I know where to go to find it!

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