Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

installer cut off the #4 ground on the SER

Collapse
This topic is closed.
X
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • roger
    replied
    Since this is becoming a DIYer thread I am closing it.

    Cubgirl, good luck with getting this resolved.

    Roger

    Leave a comment:


  • rippledipple
    replied
    splicing

    Originally posted by kwired View Post
    If the 2-2-2-4 was feeding entire dwelling unit it was acceptable per 310.15 (B)(7) to put it on a 100 amp breaker. They possibly were used to doing that frequently and knew it was acceptable but maybe not aware of why.

    But still a problem if you needed a 125 amp feeder. With (B)(7) and 125 amp - you are about 4 amps too much for #1 so 1/0 Aluminum is what would be required.
    Your contractor needs to replace that SER, are you sure he had a license???

    Leave a comment:


  • kwired
    replied
    Originally posted by cubgirl View Post
    [COLOR=#141414]i hired a licensed electrical company to do this job in April. they did no load calculations; they derated no wires (he acted like he didn't even know what it was). i asked the electrician for 125A in each unit, minimum. what i got was 2-2-2-4 feeders that carry 90A, and even while they were installing, they assured me the feeders had 125A ampacity. then they put in 100A tenant breakers & 100A mains in the subpanels. they must've thought i was a total fool.[/COLOR]

    [COLOR=#141414]so i fired them and bought new feeders and new subpanels to fix their crummy work. i had to have a minimum of a 125A panel w/ 60A double pole for tankless water heater in one of the units (the smallest one). i figured out how to do my own load calcs and 125A was the MINIMUM required in each unit to support the load.[/COLOR]

    [COLOR=#141414]i got a friend to help me fix this because i knew i could not handle the 1/0 and 2/0 SER's. unfortunately, he cut the EGC's. now i'm fixing his mistake. however, his error is more acceptable because, while it's wrong, it was at least an honest mistake.[/COLOR]

    [COLOR=#141414]after i realized the electrician screwed me, i called the AHJ but here, in my neck of the woods, the AHJ is a joke. i went to them about the load calcs, the non-de-rated cable and the fact i got two 100A panels when i was told i'd get two 125A. the AHJ doesn't really check their work, but goes by what the contractor signs off on what he SAYS he did. the AHJ guy said he can't force contractors to do load calcs or to install derated cables... he said the contractors would call the mayor who would then call his boss & his job would be in jeopardy. that's when i realized the AHJ & contractors are in bed together and neither one give a rat's a$$ about the end customers. it's a giant good ole boy system here.[/COLOR]

    [COLOR=#141414]so i'm on my own...[/COLOR]

    [COLOR=#141414]if anyone wants to impart electrical knowledge to help i'd appreciate that. if not that's OK too; i'm figuring it out on my own.[/COLOR]
    If the 2-2-2-4 was feeding entire dwelling unit it was acceptable per 310.15 (B)(7) to put it on a 100 amp breaker. They possibly were used to doing that frequently and knew it was acceptable but maybe not aware of why.

    But still a problem if you needed a 125 amp feeder. With (B)(7) and 125 amp - you are about 4 amps too much for #1 so 1/0 Aluminum is what would be required.

    Leave a comment:


  • cubgirl
    replied
    [COLOR=#141414]i hired a licensed electrical company to do this job in April. they did no load calculations; they derated no wires (he acted like he didn't even know what it was). i asked the electrician for 125A in each unit, minimum. what i got was 2-2-2-4 feeders that carry 90A, and even while they were installing, they assured me the feeders had 125A ampacity. then they put in 100A tenant breakers & 100A mains in the subpanels. they must've thought i was a total fool.[/COLOR]

    [COLOR=#141414]so i fired them and bought new feeders and new subpanels to fix their crummy work. i had to have a minimum of a 125A panel w/ 60A double pole for tankless water heater in one of the units (the smallest one). i figured out how to do my own load calcs and 125A was the MINIMUM required in each unit to support the load.[/COLOR]

    [COLOR=#141414]i got a friend to help me fix this because i knew i could not handle the 1/0 and 2/0 SER's. unfortunately, he cut the EGC's. now i'm fixing his mistake. however, his error is more acceptable because, while it's wrong, it was at least an honest mistake.[/COLOR]

    [COLOR=#141414]after i realized the electrician screwed me, i called the AHJ but here, in my neck of the woods, the AHJ is a joke. i went to them about the load calcs, the non-de-rated cable and the fact i got two 100A panels when i was told i'd get two 125A. the AHJ doesn't really check their work, but goes by what the contractor signs off on what he SAYS he did. the AHJ guy said he can't force contractors to do load calcs or to install derated cables... he said the contractors would call the mayor who would then call his boss & his job would be in jeopardy. that's when i realized the AHJ & contractors are in bed together and neither one give a rat's a$$ about the end customers. it's a giant good ole boy system here.[/COLOR]

    [COLOR=#141414]so i'm on my own...[/COLOR]

    [COLOR=#141414]if anyone wants to impart electrical knowledge to help i'd appreciate that. if not that's OK too; i'm figuring it out on my own.[/COLOR]

    Leave a comment:


  • kwired
    replied
    If they didn't cut it so short that there is nothing left to work with yes you can splice on to it with that or many other products. Would not even need the insulating sleeve on an EGC.

    I don't know what makes people cut a conductor really short in situations like that where they don't intend to use them, whether they were right or wrong to not use it is it's own story, but don't make it unusable I always leave an unused conductor available should you want to use it sometime down the road. Exception may be a cord cap or something where there just is no room for extra conductors at all.

    Leave a comment:


  • cubgirl
    replied
    hi & thanks...

    i supplied material. he was only labor.

    can i butt splice the EGC with something like this?

    i'm not getting much info on bonding the panels from the forum. so here's my plan for the panels:

    1) ensure no bonding to the enclosure from neutral and no bonding of neutral to ground by removing any bonding screws/jumpers, 2) ensure there's bonding to the enclosure on the ground bus/bar.

    my plan at meter main:

    1) ensure the grounded service neutral bus/bar is bonded to the enclosure, 2) attach both EGC's to the same bus.

    then i will have an effective ground fault path.

    thanks,
    cub
    Attached Files

    Leave a comment:


  • mjf
    replied
    curious as to why the installer bought SER when he/she believed all he/she needed was SEU ?

    Leave a comment:


  • kwired
    replied
    Originally posted by cubgirl View Post
    i agree but the 2/0-2/0-2/0-4 is 36' long. the 1/0 SER is 15' long so that maybe replaceable.
    Cost to splice it may still get you in same price range of a 36' piece, plus you need an accessible space to place the junction box.

    Maybe buy a new 36 foot piece of 2/0 and use the existing 2/0 to replace the shorter 1/0?

    Leave a comment:


  • cubgirl
    replied
    Originally posted by infinity View Post
    Either repair the existing cable by properly splicing it or just start over with a new cable. There is nothing wrong with splicing an EGC.
    OK... thank you. good to know.

    Leave a comment:


  • cubgirl
    replied
    Originally posted by kwired View Post
    Seems to me unless the run is really long you are just as well off replacing the cables instead of trying to splice them.
    i agree but the 2/0-2/0-2/0-4 is 36' long. the 1/0 SER is 15' long so that maybe replaceable.

    Leave a comment:


  • infinity
    replied
    Originally posted by cubgirl View Post
    so i'm going to get this fixed ASAP... i've been advised to get a splice box to splice the #4 GND on the SER but that solution bothers me a bit. there is no GND left at the meter end. we could splice it in the middle of the SER (at least the 35' 2/0; the 1/0 would be more difficult as most of it is in conduit) but i'd rather have a non-spliced ground wire.
    Either repair the existing cable by properly splicing it or just start over with a new cable. There is nothing wrong with splicing an EGC.

    Leave a comment:


  • jumper
    replied
    Originally posted by cubgirl View Post
    Is there anything else i need to know or do??
    Yes, the number of a lawyer to get your money back from the person who installed the equipment wrong.

    Leave a comment:


  • jumper
    replied
    Originally posted by cubgirl View Post

    is a better solution just buying a sheathed #4 and running it separately in parallel to the SER?
    Not legal.

    Splice in an enclosure or replace cable.

    Leave a comment:


  • kwired
    replied
    Seems to me unless the run is really long you are just as well off replacing the cables instead of trying to splice them.

    Leave a comment:


  • cubgirl
    replied
    so i'm going to get this fixed ASAP... i've been advised to get a splice box to splice the #4 GND on the SER but that solution bothers me a bit. there is no GND left at the meter end. we could splice it in the middle of the SER (at least the 35' 2/0; the 1/0 would be more difficult as most of it is in conduit) but i'd rather have a non-spliced ground wire.

    is a better solution just buying a sheathed #4 and running it separately in parallel to the SER?

    here is the schematic of the meter main. my plan is to run #4 to the N2/EQPT GND bus/bar (which is already bonded by the manufacturer, is that right??) and the other end will to the ground bar at the panel.

    at each siemens panel (schematics attached), i'm going to ensure the neutral and ground bus/bars are NOT bonded together. they're not bonded at the factory, right? so unless a jumper is installed, i can assume they are not bonded.

    taking these steps will fix everything, is that correct? is there anything else i need to know or do??

    thanks for your help. i appreciate it very much.
    cub
    Attached Files

    Leave a comment:

Working...
X