Aboveground Pool

[user 100]

an earth rod directly into the earth will be way different than same rod being encased in concrete and inserted into the ground. i am not suggesting earth rod for bonding purposes, its there to provide additional electrical paths for the grounding system. the MH video showed three earth rods many feet apart providing ~20 ohms back to service. this is a safety benefit for a few $$ in some earth rods.

And the benefit of getting the resistance down to 20 ohms is supposed to do what? How would we be able to permanently guarantee any low resistance? This has been discussed here ad nauseum for a long time- you may want to really re-think your position on rods. Also, think hard about concrete.......

 

[iwire]

an earth rod directly into the earth will be way different than same rod being encased in concrete and inserted into the ground.

Yes, it will be different, likely lower resistance due to the increased surface area the concrete presents to the earth.

i am not suggesting earth rod for bonding purposes, its there to provide additional electrical paths for the grounding system. the MH video showed three earth rods many feet apart providing ~20 ohms back to service. this is a safety benefit for a few $$ in some earth rods.

Can you give me link and a time where Mike tells us adding ground rods to the pools equal potential bond is a safety benefit?

whaaa? insulator is inverse of conductor.

I am saying concrete is an effective grounding electrode due to the conductivity of concrete.

 

[charlie b]

If you place a table lamp on a table and plug it in did you install it? I say yes but many say no.

Would the second paragraph in the Article 100 definition of "premises wiring system" influence your viewpoint?

Keep in mind that we all speak at least two languages that are very different from each other. One is the language of our profession. The other I like to call "conversational English." In the latter, I have no problem saying that plugging a table lamp into a receptacle is "installing it." In the former, however, I don't think it fits in with the 90.2(A) phrase, "installation of electrical . . . equipment."

 

[FionaZuppa]

Would the second paragraph in the Article 100 definition of "premises wiring system" influence your viewpoint?

Keep in mind that we all speak at least two languages that are very different from each other. One is the language of our profession. The other I like to call "conversational English." In the latter, I have no problem saying that plugging a table lamp into a receptacle is "installing it." In the former, however, I don't think it fits in with the 90.2(A) phrase, "installation of electrical . . . equipment."

but interestingly, nec 680 defines the scope as both installation of "electrical" and "equipment"

The requirements contained in Article 680 apply to the installation of
electric wiring and equipment for swimming pools, hot tubs, spas,
fountains, and hydromassage bathtubs

Can you give me link and a time where Mike tells us adding ground rods to the pools equal potential bond is a safety benefit?
I am saying concrete is an effective grounding electrode due to the conductivity of concrete.

i never said MH tells us to use them when bonding pools. i only mentioned them to better the grounding system as MH shows in his video, i then also say that taking those earth rods to the bonding grid is beneficial.

now i'll flip your question, can you provide link to evidence that shows better earth grounding by encasing in concrete. in practical use you would not bore a 8" hole 10-20ft deep, put a earth rod or fence post in, and then fill with concrete. the comparison was a 10-20 earth rod directly into the earth, vs what you say is better that the existing fence post in perhaps 18" deep x 6" dia concrete provides lower ohms into earth back to service.

 

[iwire]

i never said MH tells us to use them when bonding pools.

You certainly insinuated it but OK.

i only mentioned them to better the grounding system as MH shows in his video, i then also say that taking those earth rods to the bonding grid is beneficial.

The bonding is not grounding and additional grounding to the bonding system is not beneficial to its performance.

now i'll flip your question, can you provide link to evidence that shows better earth grounding by encasing in concrete.

http://www.psihq.com/iread/ufergrnd.htm

And keep in mind this discovery was in one of the most arid areas of the US

in practical use you would not bore a 8" hole 10-20ft deep, put a earth rod or fence post in, and then fill with concrete. the comparison was a 10-20 earth rod directly into the earth, vs what you say is better that the existing fence post in perhaps 18" deep x 6" dia concrete provides lower ohms into earth back to service.

The ohms to remote earth figure is not relevant for pool bonding systems. The person in the pool cannot contact remote earth.

 

[iwire]

Would the second paragraph in the Article 100 definition of "premises wiring system" influence your viewpoint?

Not really as that is talking about internal wiring of appliances.

 

[bure961]

For the question being asked, I could not find a model number for the pool anywhere. I purchased a water bonding kit that is tee into the bottom of the skimmer line connected a #8 solid to the lug on the motor. I was able to remove a small part of the covering above the side support of the pool found them to be non metalic. I am not sure about the shell of the pool or the base. I spoke to a pool worker and could not get a straight answer.
I do have a question about the fence should i bond a fence post to the motor lug ?

Thanks again all the replys to this post.

 

[FionaZuppa]

i would bond the fence. at a fence post i would try to clamp the copper to the fencing itself and the pole.
is the ladder metal or all plastic?

 

[bure961]

ladder is plastic going to wooden deck.

 

[FionaZuppa]

ladder is plastic going to wooden deck.

a wooden deck? hmmm, i would bond that too. search for methods for bonding wooden decks.