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    Adding a separate ground wire for dryer.

    I know there must be an existing post on this subject, but I can't find it so bear with me.

    I have a client with a three wire dryer recep. Due the wall construction it's not possible to get a 10/3 NM over there to change it to a 4-wire recep (without massive demo). The dryer is sitting right next to the water heater which is properly wired with 10/2 NM.

    Can I tap the WH ground wire and run it over to the 4-wire dryer recep? (code reference please)

    Can I ground using the water pipe of the washer? (code reference please) I have to check, but i believe the house has all copper piping.

    #2
    no - 250.132(C)

    no - 250.52(A)(1) unless you connect to the water pipe within 5' of it entering the building.
    [COLOR=navy]If you aim at nothing, you will hit it every time![/COLOR]

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      #3
      Originally posted by Coppersmith View Post
      I know there must be an existing post on this subject, but I can't find it so bear with me.

      I have a client with a three wire dryer recep. Due the wall construction it's not possible to get a 10/3 NM over there to change it to a 4-wire recep (without massive demo). The dryer is sitting right next to the water heater which is properly wired with 10/2 NM.

      Can I tap the WH ground wire and run it over to the 4-wire dryer recep? (code reference please)

      Can I ground using the water pipe of the washer? (code reference please) I have to check, but i believe the house has all copper piping.
      Do you need to change it to 4 wire? Did you move the receptacle or extend the supply end of the circuit? Was fed from service panel and it got converted to feeder supplied panel?
      I live for today, I'm just a day behind.

      Comment


        #4
        Originally posted by Little Bill View Post
        no - 250.132(C)
        (2014) 250.130(C)(4) explicitly allows using the 10/2 NM EGC if it originates in the same panel as the dryer receptacle circuit. And 300.3(B)(2) allows running the grounding conductor outside of the cable serving the dryer receptacle in accordance with 250.130(C) for "certain existing installations."

        Cheers, Wayne

        Comment


          #5
          Originally posted by wwhitney View Post
          (2014) 250.130(C)(4) explicitly allows using the 10/2 NM EGC if it originates in the same panel as the dryer receptacle circuit. And 300.3(B)(2) allows running the grounding conductor outside of the cable serving the dryer receptacle in accordance with 250.130(C) for "certain existing installations."

          Cheers, Wayne
          That would be correct if under the 2014 and later. We are under the 2008 (for now) and that's what I was referencing.
          [COLOR=navy]If you aim at nothing, you will hit it every time![/COLOR]

          Comment


            #6
            Originally posted by kwired View Post
            Do you need to change it to 4 wire? Did you move the receptacle or extend the supply end of the circuit? Was fed from service panel and it got converted to feeder supplied panel?
            We are doing a service change with an upgrade from 100 to 200 amps. The AHJ requires dryer and range wiring be brought up to current code unless change is same size. The house appears to have been recently rewired except for the dryer circuit.

            Originally posted by Little Bill View Post
            That would be correct if under the 2014 and later. We are under the 2008 (for now) and that's what I was referencing.
            We are under 2014.

            Comment


              #7
              Originally posted by wwhitney View Post
              (2014) 250.130(C)(4) explicitly allows using the 10/2 NM EGC if it originates in the same panel as the dryer receptacle circuit. And 300.3(B)(2) allows running the grounding conductor outside of the cable serving the dryer receptacle in accordance with 250.130(C) for "certain existing installations."
              Thank you, this appears to be what I need. I'm unclear if 300.3(B)(2) is saying the EGC has to be next to the cable or raceway (on the outside) or if the EGC can take an entirely different route. In my case, the EGC would be running horizontally from WH to dryer whereas the circuit for both of these are vertical from the ceiling. Also does the EGC have to be protected with conduit or inside the wall or can I run it on the surface of the wall unprotected?

              Comment


                #8
                Originally posted by Coppersmith View Post
                We are doing a service change with an upgrade from 100 to 200 amps. The AHJ requires dryer and range wiring be brought up to current code unless change is same size. The house appears to have been recently rewired except for the dryer circuit.



                We are under 2014.
                Unless the exception for 250.140 has been changed for the 2014 code cycle, or the conditions are not met, your inspector is incorrect in forcing those circuits to be upgraded.
                Electricians do it until it Hertz!

                Comment


                  #9
                  Originally posted by JFletcher View Post
                  Unless the exception for 250.140 has been changed for the 2014 code cycle, or the conditions are not met, your inspector is incorrect in forcing those circuits to be upgraded.
                  I agree NEC doesn't require the change - but I think he is saying they have a local rule that says it must be changed if the service is upgraded. IMO, dumb rule. NEC allowing these three wire circuits (at least as long as they did) was dumb as well though. This is a little like buying an older car but a local authority says you must equip it with current model year required safety features or you can't drive it on a public road.
                  I live for today, I'm just a day behind.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by JFletcher View Post
                    Unless the exception for 250.140 has been changed for the 2014 code cycle, or the conditions are not met, your inspector is incorrect in forcing those circuits to be upgraded.
                    He might want to see if this is actually a local amendment vs something the inspector "wants"
                    Ethan Brush - East West Electric. NY, WA. MA

                    "You can't generalize"

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Originally posted by electrofelon View Post
                      He might want to see if this is actually a local amendment vs something the inspector "wants"
                      Agreed. And kwired, could be, tho many use AHJ and inspector interchangeably when they really arent. I see nothing wrong with using three wire ranges and dryers, within the provision of 250.140. There are literally millions of homes that have them installed, with aluminum wire SE cable) at that, with no problems.

                      Here, if you move the receptacle, it is no longer "existing", and then you don't meet 250.140. Changing a main panel into a subpanel would require a 4 wire feed to both ranges and dryers.

                      Unless, like electrofelon wrote, this is a local amendment in the original posters area, I would definitely fight this one.
                      Electricians do it until it Hertz!

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Maybe I missed it........ but what wiring method is currently being used to supply the dryer?
                        Curt Swartz
                        Electrical Contractor

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                          #13
                          We extended a 3-wire circuit the other day for a 4-wire oven. Last I checked the sun still came up and went down.

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Originally posted by curt swartz View Post
                            Maybe I missed it........ but what wiring method is currently being used to supply the dryer?
                            Don't think it was really mentioned - but most likely is safe to presume NM or SE cable.
                            I live for today, I'm just a day behind.

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Originally posted by curt swartz View Post
                              Maybe I missed it........ but what wiring method is currently being used to supply the dryer?
                              Originally posted by kwired View Post
                              Don't think it was really mentioned - but most likely is safe to presume NM or SE cable.
                              OP said 10-2
                              [COLOR=navy]If you aim at nothing, you will hit it every time![/COLOR]

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