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CSST bonding to sub panel

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    #16
    Originally posted by LarryFine View Post
    CSST bonding; I don't know what ISBT is.
    I think it's short for:

    Intersystem Bonding Terminal
    Norb

    Comment


      #17
      We have talked about this csst going to the intersystem bonding but at the big meetings it was stated that the intersystem bonding unit was not listed for bonding of csst. Local inspectors still allow it at times however most units have only 3 ports for other utilities so if you use one for the intersystem then you only have 2 left. Can one argue that the csst is another system???

      Consist of a set of terminals with the capacity for connection
      of not less than three intersystem bonding conductors
      They say I shot a man named Gray and took his wife to Italy
      She inherited a million bucks and when she died it came to me
      I can't help it if I'm lucky

      Comment


        #18
        Originally posted by kec View Post
        Can someone tell where it states that the #6 bonding wire has to be connected to the main panel and not a sub panel ground bar?

        Here.
        https://cdn-web.iccsafe.org/wp-conte...Notes_CSST.pdf

        "The permanent bonding of corrugated stainless steel tubing (CSST) piping system directly to the grounding electrode system of the structure in which the CSST is installed will lower the voltage build-up on the CSST caused by unintentional energizing from outside sources such as power surges and lightning strikes"


        Must connect to the GEC not to the EGC. Minimum wire size #6 cu.

        Comment


          #19
          Is there anywhere in the gas code that states the connection must be continuous? I don't think so so if the equipment grounding conductor to the sub panel is a #6 then the csst bonding should be allowed to connect to that panel.
          They say I shot a man named Gray and took his wife to Italy
          She inherited a million bucks and when she died it came to me
          I can't help it if I'm lucky

          Comment


            #20
            Originally posted by Dennis Alwon View Post
            Is there anywhere in the gas code that states the connection must be continuous? I don't think so so if the equipment grounding conductor to the sub panel is a #6 then the csst bonding should be allowed to connect to that panel.
            It says connect to the grounding electrode system.

            Comment


              #21
              Originally posted by Jamesco View Post
              It says connect to the grounding electrode system.
              It would be thru the equipment grounding conductor of the panel back to the main panel. It is all connected together
              They say I shot a man named Gray and took his wife to Italy
              She inherited a million bucks and when she died it came to me
              I can't help it if I'm lucky

              Comment


                #22
                If I can splice the bond wire then what is the difference if I spliced it back to the panel. I know you can connect the INTERSYSTEM BONDING back to the panel..
                They say I shot a man named Gray and took his wife to Italy
                She inherited a million bucks and when she died it came to me
                I can't help it if I'm lucky

                Comment


                  #23
                  Originally posted by Dennis Alwon View Post
                  It would be thru the equipment grounding conductor of the panel back to the main panel. It is all connected together
                  Are they the same as defined by the NEC?

                  Comment


                    #24
                    Originally posted by Jamesco View Post
                    Are they the same as defined by the NEC?
                    I don't understand your question. The equipment grounding conductor is not the same as a bonding jumper-the conductor from the csst. But I don't see anywhere where I cannot splice the bonding jumper, connect it to the equipment grounding conductor which in turn is connected to the grounding electrode system.

                    In fact, 250 121 exception specifically allows the equipment grounding conductor to be used as a grounding electrode conductor. That is not exactly what we have here but it leads some credence to the install, IMO. I may be wrong about this especially if the gas code won't allow the splice- I don't believe there is anything in there that says you cannot splice the bonding conductor
                    They say I shot a man named Gray and took his wife to Italy
                    She inherited a million bucks and when she died it came to me
                    I can't help it if I'm lucky

                    Comment


                      #25
                      Originally posted by Dennis Alwon View Post
                      I don't understand your question. The equipment grounding conductor is not the same as a bonding jumper-the conductor from the csst. But I don't see anywhere where I cannot splice the bonding jumper, connect it to the equipment grounding conductor which in turn is connected to the grounding electrode system.

                      In fact, 250 121 exception specifically allows the equipment grounding conductor to be used as a grounding electrode conductor. That is not exactly what we have here but it leads some credence to the install, IMO. I may be wrong about this especially if the gas code won't allow the splice- I don't believe there is anything in there that says you cannot splice the bonding conductor
                      The 2018 International Fuel Gas Code® (IFGC®) says it connects to the grounding electrode system.

                      "The permanent bonding of corrugated stainless steel tubing (CSST) piping system directly to the grounding electrode system of the structure in which the CSST is installed will lower the voltage build-up on the CSST caused by unintentional energizing from outside sources such as power surges and lightning strikes."
                      https://cdn-web.iccsafe.org/wp-conte...Notes_CSST.pdf






                      Comment


                        #26
                        Originally posted by Dennis Alwon View Post
                        Is there anywhere in the gas code that states the connection must be continuous? I don't think so so if the equipment grounding conductor to the sub panel is a #6 then the csst bonding should be allowed to connect to that panel.
                        This is exactly what my post was implying

                        Comment


                          #27
                          Originally posted by Jamesco View Post
                          The 2018 International Fuel Gas Code® (IFGC®) says it connects to the grounding electrode system.

                          "The permanent bonding of corrugated stainless steel tubing (CSST) piping system directly to the grounding electrode system of the structure in which the CSST is installed will lower the voltage build-up on the CSST caused by unintentional energizing from outside sources such as power surges and lightning strikes."
                          https://cdn-web.iccsafe.org/wp-conte...Notes_CSST.pdf






                          It will be connected to the grounding electrode system. That is what I am trying to tell you

                          Are you saying that I must connect to the ground rod or other electrode and cannot connect it to the main panel which is connected to the ground rod or other electrodes.
                          They say I shot a man named Gray and took his wife to Italy
                          She inherited a million bucks and when she died it came to me
                          I can't help it if I'm lucky

                          Comment


                            #28
                            Originally posted by kec View Post
                            This is exactly what my post was implying
                            IMO, if the equipment grounding conductor of the panel is properly sized for the csst bonding then I would think you would be compliant however, I am sure there are others who feel differently
                            They say I shot a man named Gray and took his wife to Italy
                            She inherited a million bucks and when she died it came to me
                            I can't help it if I'm lucky

                            Comment


                              #29
                              Originally posted by kec View Post
                              This is exactly what my post was implying
                              You cannot use the equipment grounding conductor of the sub panel.

                              Here are a couple of Web Links for you to read.
                              https://www.ecmweb.com/bonding-amp-g...el-tubing-csst

                              https://forums.mikeholt.com/showthread.php?t=169232

                              In my State the yellow jacket CSST can no longer be used for new installs. The black jacket CSST is now required (I believe 2018). Ground bonding is still required.

                              Yellow CSST is not grand fathered in. For a used house to be sold the existing yellow jacket CSST, (if not already bonded to the grounding electrode system), must be bonded to the grounding electrode system by a licensed electrician.

                              Comment


                                #30
                                Originally posted by Dennis Alwon View Post
                                It will be connected to the grounding electrode system. That is what I am trying to tell you

                                Are you saying that I must connect to the ground rod or other electrode and cannot connect it to the main panel which is connected to the ground rod or other electrodes.
                                I am saying the Gas Code says it must connect to the grounding electrode system of the electrical service. Not to the equipment grounding conductor of a sub panel.

                                Comment

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